Insurance

[magic3]

I own a property which has a shared pool. I want to rent out the property but can only get public liabililty insurance for the house not a shared pool. As I understand it you can not insure something that you personally don't own, which makes sense. Can any one therefore tell me what the hundres of property owners in Kalkan with aparts/houses with shared pools do to get cover for their customers?

Many thanks
Magic3

Linkback: https://www.enjoykalkan.com/forum/index.php?topic=8203.0

[Denners]

Presumably you need to get all the owners to agree and get a policy in everones  joint name.

[Dellbarr]

It's only in good old England (and America) that everyone sues due to a "No win, no fee" policy that our legal people have adopted. By over reacting the way you appear to be, it's going to spread. I don't think that it's got to Turkey yet and I sincerely hope it doesn't.

[Cosetta]

I am not sure if 3rd party liability insurance exists here, even less sure that it would really be paid out should there be a claim.  the truth is that suing someone in Turkey requires many years and usually there is little enforcement of the judgement.  I would be surprised if more than a handful of owners have such insurance here.

[Denners]

But if the guests (who had an accident) were British and the owner was British, they could sue in Britain.

[magic3]

Thanks for your replies - I would presume that since they (UK insurance Co) offer cover if you are the sole owner then  action could be taken against someone in the uk, but I don't know that for a fact.  You are right that we could all take out a policy to include the pool but not all the other owners are British (they will only cover UK citizens) and the insurance company won't do a policy just for the pool they want building & contents which runs into a few hundred pounds a year each for all the other owners.....
My "over reaction" aside!!!! I feel protecting myself & therefore my family's financial security is worth paying a premium for.

[Blue Lizard]

could you not put a disclaimer notice by the pool along the lines of "the owners accept no liabillity for accident or injury around the pool area"obviously not a huge sign to make people panic just big enough and discreet.... wouldn't that cover it if you are worried? you may need the consent of the other owners...the lido i used to go to in the uk had a similar sign with the "owner" replaced by the council name i assume a council would have had lawyers look into it...but turkey?who knows

[kevincat99]

I would wholeheartedly agree with Denners
If the contract to rent is made in the UK one would assume that it is within UK Law irrespective of where the property is
But as Magic 3 says  peace of mind is worth paying for
But also as Cossetta says she doubts if many owners have such insurance here in the event of a problem, but that does not make it right not to have it - but lots of villa renters here seem to want to maximise their income and pay as little as possible for all the services they obtain here and one day there will be a problem,,,sure as eggs is eggs

[Denners]

Agree with kevincat99...not worth the risk not having it and not sure a sign by the pool will 'get you off the hook' depending what the type of accident it is.

[Cosetta]

But what if the contract is not made in the UK and not paid in the UK ?  Would a UK insurance company insure a non-UK citizen  and non-UK resident owning a villa in Turkey?  One who has no connection or bank account or property in the UK ? Just to have a sterling account in the UK you need to have a residential address there.

It would be great if someone undertakes to look into this !  My comments regard buying such insurance here in Turkey from a Turkish company. 

[kevincat99]

Hi I take your point Cosetta....but the vast majority of villa renters here I would suggest are from the UK and their clients are from the UK...therefore the contract is in the UK and would be enforceable there.Even putting a disclaimer as to non liability I would think would not work as any accidents could be caused by lack of maintenance, the pool man leaving  items that someone could trip over etc etc >
The owner would still always have a duty of care to his clients
But as you say Cosetta this may be something that renters do not consider or have adequate insurance for ....or do they ??
Other views I am sure would be welcome on this topic

[Kalkan regular]

I believe Intasure will cover the communal areas if 75% of the owners have their apartment insurance with them. You cannot insure with them however if you are resident in Turkey as they can only take out Turkish Government approved insurance. So if 75% of owners don't live in Turkey and you can get them all to insure with Intasun then you are sorted, otherwise...........
Kevincat99 I'm sorry you have such a poor view of those who do rent their property, I assume it has come from experience of renting. Many of us consider our property to be our second home and have great pride in it. We may rent to help with the bills and like most householders don't want to pay over the odds for services, as we wouldn't want to do in the UK. Most of us are very concerned for guest safety and we aren't out to fleece them, unfortunately the insurance available in Turkey doesn't give us the cover we would like to have.

[Denners]

But don't hotels in Turkey have public liability insurance ? If they do, then it must be available through a Turkish insurer. Ask at the banks in Kalkan.

[Kalkan regular]

An hotel is one owner/company. The problem with apartment complexes is that the communal area is shared ownership/responsibility and no company will insure you for your share alone.

[SimonG]

In respect of the legal situation, this is my understanding based on speaking to a specialist lawyer and dealing, very indirectly, myself as a lawyer with holiday accident claims.  But, I accept no legal liability if this advice is wrong (typical lawyer writing).

If a holiday is booked in the UK as a "package holiday" then if you have an accident abroad you can sue in the UK and recover damages based on UK law (or at least English law if that is where you booked your holiday).  If the holiday is not a package holiday you have no right to sue in UK, even though that is where the contract is made.  You would then have to proceed in Turkey.  I have no knowledge of the Turkish system but suspect that you would struggle to succeed if you simply slip around a pool and any damages are likely to be too low to be worth the trouble.

Given I doubt any villa/appartment owners are offering package holidays themselves, the worst you might face is a claim in Turkey which is unlikely to be significant and damages will be calculated entirely differently (any Turkish lawyers care to comment?) and insurance is probably not a large priority.  A Turksh policy will pay out based on Turkish law. 

I do have a Turkish policy for my villa.

Those travelling abroad on a non-package holiday should ensure they have their own adequate insurance to deal with accidents, etc.  Remember to remind your guests.

(Different rules may apply if the holiday is to another EU country.)

[magic3]

Thanks again to everyone for your thoughts on this.
Simon G thank you very much for your views (though obviously we won't hold you to them!) it made for an interesting read.

[MartynE]

Interesting thread.

We have insured our apartments and all the communal areas (including the pool) through Intasure. They give £5million public liability insurance, which you simply cannot get from Turkish insurers.

Yes, it costs a bit more than the basic policies the Turkish banks offer, but what price peace of mind? I can't speak for other Kalkan owners who rent out their villas/apartments, but we take our responsibilities very seriously and insurance is one thing you cannot afford to skimp on. Especially since most of our guests are from the UK and would (rightly) want to sue us, as the owners, if there was an avoidable accident....  accidents tend to happen when people are having fun... 

[Kalkan regular]

Hi Martyn. I'm very intersted in the cover you have with Intasure. Is it a villa over which you have full ownership, is it an apartment and Intasure have insured your share of the communal area even though other owners are not with them or is it an apartment and 75% of the owners are with Intasure?

[magic3]

I have my property insured with intasure but they won't cover my communal areas or the pool. They told me (on Monday) that everyone would have to have building and contents with them to be able to provide cover for a shared pool. This where my problem started as I also believe that insurance is very important, it's just no one wants to insure me.......

[alantj]

Hi Magic3,

What makes you think you are responsible for what happens in the communal areas of your block. I would have thought (but don't know) that the management company or block owner would be responsible for ensuring your and your guests safety in these areas.