What is EK becoming ?

[Denners]

I am an occasional user of the forum and get a lot of useful information about Kalkan from what is posted on the forum. I can see that many other people also use the forum for the same purpose. The forum is also great for promoting good causes (KAPSA, local schools etc) to the local community and visitors; and for publicising local issues.
 
However, I'd like to invite Mr EK to clearly explain, for the interest of all the users of the forum and the website; and for openness/transparency, how EK is developing and what it is becoming.
 
As I understand it, EK started out as a free-to-use independent forum website, allowing owners to advertise/promote their properties for rental. It appeared to be a very useful website run by a guy as a hobby, and not as his day job, promoting the interests of Kalkan as a destination !
 
It then developed commercial activities (airport transfers/car hire/excursions) with the Adda Group. The level of EK/Adda/external (Google Ads etc) advertising increased on the forum, although forum users are not allowed to advertise themselves. Evolved into the Enjoy Group of Companies. Recently set up a new joint venture with Adda, the Adda Real Estate business/portal to advertise properties in Kalkan for sale. Is now recruiting for EK staff in Kalkan in the tourism industry.
 
At various times in the past, posters on the forum have questioned EK on some of these things and potential conflicts of interest, but Mr EK has consistently declined to explain or comment. Given the number of people who use the forum I can see that it provides a great free 'mailing list' to develop and promote commercial EK activities for profit.
 
Could I invite Mr EK to give all forum users some help on these things, in the spirit of transparency ?
 
Is the forum just a very clever vehicle to develop profit generating commercial activities for the owners of EK ?
 
Is EK going to start advertising rental properties (with Adda ?) as principal, not as a vehicle for local owners ? Is EK going to be competing with owners who advertise their properties on the website as it is currently recruiting staff for 2011 in this area ?

Linkback: https://www.enjoykalkan.com/forum/index.php?topic=6934.0

[fidimax]

Denners,why should EK explain to yourself or any member of this site,it is EK,s choice what to advertise on the site or what not too,who they advertise with and who they form a partnership with.
Any member who does not like/agree with EK,s growth always has the option...........delete,dont use EK.
After all,EK is providing a service,If I dont like a service.....I dont use it.           

[kim21]

sorry fidimax, but this comment is unnecessary and provocative and  is unhelpful to users and to ek.

[Enjoy Kalkan]

Sorry Kim21 but im with Fidimax on this one, I think Denners was the one looking for a reaction. 

[alantj]

Denners,why should EK explain to yourself or any member of this site,it is EK,s choice what to advertise on the site or what not too,who they advertise with and who they form a partnership with.
Any member who does not like/agree with EK,s growth always has the option...........delete,dont use EK.
After all,EK is providing a service,If I dont like a service.....I dont use it.           

Why not, transparency is good and generates trust. I am sure many EK users would be interested in how EK is developing, and would wish Jon well if he manages to turn his hobby into a commercial success. 

[Enjoy Kalkan]

Im afraid there is also only a limited amount of information if any that shall be posted on open forums as to share the vision would only lead to exposing commercial secrets and creating copy-cat offerings.


At this point only employees of The Enjoy Group will be aware of internal decisions who will also be under strict NDAs.


Sorry, but Im sure we are all aware as to how modern business works.

[Vally]

To be honest I had always assumed the whole point of this was to make money for EK and good luck to them. This forum is a free service that many of us use and benefit from. If I didn't like what I get (for nothing) I'll stop coming back.
 
We alll use Google because it's useful to us. Google provide their search services to make money from advertising and to promote other iniatives. I don't see the difference between that and what EK are looking to do.
 
I'm sure we'll all find out in due course what the future plans are when they are advertised to us

[Denners]

I'm inclined to respond to the above posts:

Fidimax - I think EK should have to explain themselves to users of the forum as they run the forum and set down the rules (no advertising on it) when EK is developing the site commercially to benefit their own profit interests. Why is it an unreasonable request ? Openness and transparency !!!

Mr EK (first post) - I wasn't looking for a 'reaction' but open and honest information. I found your post both dismissive and condesending.

Alantj - agree with you.

Mr EK (second post) - So my interpretation of your comments is that EK is a fully commercial and profit motivated website using the the forum's members database to generate profit for EK. That's fine if that is the objective. Just be honest and open about it, instead of always being defensive !

Vally - I agree and always assumed that what it was really all about !

[Alan]

Sorry Denners but I don't see what the fuss is all about or why you take objection to EK developing the site. I "Found" EK when our local travel agent recommended Kalkan to us. We had been to Turkey before but not Kalkan and I found EK together with KTLN invaluable in finding information that helped us to plan our holiiday. Other peoples views on lots of subjects. We absolutely love Kalkan and enjoy being able stay in touch with what is happening. Regading adverts, I blank them out unless I am looking for something. Best wishes

[Enjoy Kalkan]

Denners,

I still fail to see what your issue is. I believe you have involvement in a villa and apartment rental business (Truffle Apartments and Villas?), in the interests of openness and transparency to your customers do you publish on your website all your commercial details and commission structures including why you have chosen particular properties to advertise or how you came to decide to offer discounts with some businesses over others?

Whilst you may well feel you are crusading for the members Im afraid you will not prompt a reaction from me this way.

Jon.

[Legionaire]

OK this is the way I see it.
I first looked and then joined the forum to gather information on Kalkan and my holidays there.
I saw the advertising, comments, ideas, thoughts, moans, praises etc (I have joined in on some!).
I took what I wanted from the forum, gave some back, and more importantly ignored the ones that were not for me.
Of course some companies were advertised over others, some received praise some did not, but the most important point to me is that we/us/the general user could add our comments and thoughts.
If our thoughts and posts were ever policed or vetted then I would think about moving on.
Did I ever think this was a commercial opportunity for someone......absolutely.

[Pete]

I agree with Legionaire. However, I do think that the site has changed over the period it has been running for. I rarely log on to it these days, I usually just look at it as a visitor two or three times a week to see whats going on.
John, I do not have a problem with anyone running a business and making a profit from it, I have done that myself for most of my working life. You are quite right in saying that it is the companies private business as to how it actually generates its revenue and profits (I hope you are actually making some!!). But I do think it is only fair to make a statement as to what the actual business model now is. One other thing that I feel should be raised is that my understanding was that people like Felicity, The Feds, JoanH, who at various times have acted as moderators on the site did this for free, please correct me if I am wrong about this. If they were giving their time for nothing, then there is a moral dillema that others may be profiting from this.
 

[Mrs Enjoy Kalkan]

I do not feel that there is any 'moral dilema'.The EK admin team help on a voluntary basis as do thousands of others in the world today; again do we question all the organisations that recruit them? The roles have never been advertised as paid and the individuals concerned are aware of this. I do not feel that we have to justify their roles as this is between us and them. Jon and I also are not paid for doing this contrary to popular belief. If we were I certainly wouldn’t be sat in work now on my lunch hour typing this and instead would be in Kalkan drinking a cool Efes  .
Yes we are trying to make some money from this as the cost of maintaining a website like this is not cheap nor is the amount of work that Jon (who also has a full time job) puts in during the evenings and weekends. If it expands wonderful but that is something between us as owners. We are not a public sector organisation so do not have any duty to share this.

Also for clarity, Felicity and The Feds are no longer helpers. The team consists of Brooksie, Joan H and Antler who we now consider to be friends as well as helpers. They all do a fantastic job in helping to make EK the website it is today.

[Legionaire]

Mrs EK I agree and hope that this puts this to bed once and for all.
I, also am writing this at work, keeping busy until my lunch break!!!

[kalkanbelle]

If anyone can turn a hobby into a profit making business then fair play to them!  The amount of time and energy that Jon and the EK team have put into this website deserves whatever rewards come their way and I hope they do get some financial profit from it (why would anyone want to spend their time and money indefinitely and get nothing in return?)  This website is FREE to users so I can't understand why some posters are waffling on about honesty and transparency?  EK is not a charity so it's entirely up to them how they fund or run this website.  Personally I'm just glad that it exists!

[turkeyfan]

Jon and Julie,
All I can say is I've been a member of EK for years - from just after it started I think.  I just want to say Thank You for all the hard work, time and expense that you have put into the website and the forum.  I want to wish you luck in whatever you are trying to achieve from EK.  Its difficult enough to be in business without peeple questioning your intentions all the time. IF and it's a big if, you make a fortune out of EK, then I say well done to you. 

As long as it's legal and you're not hurting anyone, as far as I can see it's not mine or anyone elses business how you intend to make EK a profitable business.

Keep up with the good work.

[Rachey]

Hear, hear Legionaire, Kalkanbelle, Blue Lizard and Turkeyfan!  You have expressed my thoughts exactly.  All the best Mr and Mrs EK, and thanks and best wishes to you and your helpers, JoanH, Brooksie and the eloquent Antler in all you do 

[Brooksie]

Let's just clarify something for the membership as a whole.
This site and all the people involved past and present have donated their time and in some instances money for nothing to make this work. Economics have changed a lot over the last couple of years and we have to find different ways to make this forum work. Otherwise we lose it.

[Xbrams]

Hello

I am quite new visitor to this web site.  I found it in summer when I visited kalkan for the first time.

This is the first time that I have posted a message here, but I find myself amazed that some users are complaining. Your site is good and you give independent advice on many things in kalkan.

My family is in Spain France and UK and I travel a lot and it is sometimes difficult to get good independent information.

Keep up your good efforts. Xavi

[amber]

It seems quıte sımple to me - If you lıke the sıte use ıt and ıf you dont lıke ıt, dont use ıt.