Kalkan Turkey Forum - EnjoyKalkan.com
Kalkan Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Denners on November 17, 2010, 10:47:04 AM
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I am an occasional user of the forum and get a lot of useful information about Kalkan from what is posted on the forum. I can see that many other people also use the forum for the same purpose. The forum is also great for promoting good causes (KAPSA, local schools etc) to the local community and visitors; and for publicising local issues.
However, I'd like to invite Mr EK to clearly explain, for the interest of all the users of the forum and the website; and for openness/transparency, how EK is developing and what it is becoming.
As I understand it, EK started out as a free-to-use independent forum website, allowing owners to advertise/promote their properties for rental. It appeared to be a very useful website run by a guy as a hobby, and not as his day job, promoting the interests of Kalkan as a destination !
It then developed commercial activities (airport transfers/car hire/excursions) with the Adda Group. The level of EK/Adda/external (Google Ads etc) advertising increased on the forum, although forum users are not allowed to advertise themselves. Evolved into the Enjoy Group of Companies. Recently set up a new joint venture with Adda, the Adda Real Estate business/portal to advertise properties in Kalkan for sale. Is now recruiting for EK staff in Kalkan in the tourism industry.
At various times in the past, posters on the forum have questioned EK on some of these things and potential conflicts of interest, but Mr EK has consistently declined to explain or comment. Given the number of people who use the forum I can see that it provides a great free 'mailing list' to develop and promote commercial EK activities for profit.
Could I invite Mr EK to give all forum users some help on these things, in the spirit of transparency ?
Is the forum just a very clever vehicle to develop profit generating commercial activities for the owners of EK ?
Is EK going to start advertising rental properties (with Adda ?) as principal, not as a vehicle for local owners ? Is EK going to be competing with owners who advertise their properties on the website as it is currently recruiting staff for 2011 in this area ?
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Denners,why should EK explain to yourself or any member of this site,it is EK,s choice what to advertise on the site or what not too,who they advertise with and who they form a partnership with.
Any member who does not like/agree with EK,s growth always has the option...........delete,dont use EK.
After all,EK is providing a service,If I dont like a service.....I dont use it. ::)
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sorry fidimax, but this comment is unnecessary and provocative and is unhelpful to users and to ek.
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Sorry Kim21 but im with Fidimax on this one, I think Denners was the one looking for a reaction. :)
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Denners,why should EK explain to yourself or any member of this site,it is EK,s choice what to advertise on the site or what not too,who they advertise with and who they form a partnership with.
Any member who does not like/agree with EK,s growth always has the option...........delete,dont use EK.
After all,EK is providing a service,If I dont like a service.....I dont use it. ::)
Why not, transparency is good and generates trust. I am sure many EK users would be interested in how EK is developing, and would wish Jon well if he manages to turn his hobby into a commercial success.
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Im afraid there is also only a limited amount of information if any that shall be posted on open forums as to share the vision would only lead to exposing commercial secrets and creating copy-cat offerings.
At this point only employees of The Enjoy Group will be aware of internal decisions who will also be under strict NDAs.
Sorry, but Im sure we are all aware as to how modern business works.
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To be honest I had always assumed the whole point of this was to make money for EK and good luck to them. This forum is a free service that many of us use and benefit from. If I didn't like what I get (for nothing) I'll stop coming back.
We alll use Google because it's useful to us. Google provide their search services to make money from advertising and to promote other iniatives. I don't see the difference between that and what EK are looking to do.
I'm sure we'll all find out in due course what the future plans are when they are advertised to us :)
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I'm inclined to respond to the above posts:
Fidimax - I think EK should have to explain themselves to users of the forum as they run the forum and set down the rules (no advertising on it) when EK is developing the site commercially to benefit their own profit interests. Why is it an unreasonable request ? Openness and transparency !!!
Mr EK (first post) - I wasn't looking for a 'reaction' but open and honest information. I found your post both dismissive and condesending.
Alantj - agree with you.
Mr EK (second post) - So my interpretation of your comments is that EK is a fully commercial and profit motivated website using the the forum's members database to generate profit for EK. That's fine if that is the objective. Just be honest and open about it, instead of always being defensive !
Vally - I agree and always assumed that what it was really all about !
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Sorry Denners but I don't see what the fuss is all about or why you take objection to EK developing the site. I "Found" EK when our local travel agent recommended Kalkan to us. We had been to Turkey before but not Kalkan and I found EK together with KTLN invaluable in finding information that helped us to plan our holiiday. Other peoples views on lots of subjects. We absolutely love Kalkan and enjoy being able stay in touch with what is happening. Regading adverts, I blank them out unless I am looking for something. Best wishes
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Denners,
I still fail to see what your issue is. I believe you have involvement in a villa and apartment rental business (Truffle Apartments and Villas?), in the interests of openness and transparency to your customers do you publish on your website all your commercial details and commission structures including why you have chosen particular properties to advertise or how you came to decide to offer discounts with some businesses over others?
Whilst you may well feel you are crusading for the members Im afraid you will not prompt a reaction from me this way.
Jon.
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OK this is the way I see it.
I first looked and then joined the forum to gather information on Kalkan and my holidays there.
I saw the advertising, comments, ideas, thoughts, moans, praises etc (I have joined in on some!).
I took what I wanted from the forum, gave some back, and more importantly ignored the ones that were not for me.
Of course some companies were advertised over others, some received praise some did not, but the most important point to me is that we/us/the general user could add our comments and thoughts.
If our thoughts and posts were ever policed or vetted then I would think about moving on.
Did I ever think this was a commercial opportunity for someone......absolutely.
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I agree with Legionaire. However, I do think that the site has changed over the period it has been running for. I rarely log on to it these days, I usually just look at it as a visitor two or three times a week to see whats going on.
John, I do not have a problem with anyone running a business and making a profit from it, I have done that myself for most of my working life. You are quite right in saying that it is the companies private business as to how it actually generates its revenue and profits (I hope you are actually making some!!). But I do think it is only fair to make a statement as to what the actual business model now is. One other thing that I feel should be raised is that my understanding was that people like Felicity, The Feds, JoanH, who at various times have acted as moderators on the site did this for free, please correct me if I am wrong about this. If they were giving their time for nothing, then there is a moral dillema that others may be profiting from this.
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I do not feel that there is any 'moral dilema'.The EK admin team help on a voluntary basis as do thousands of others in the world today; again do we question all the organisations that recruit them? The roles have never been advertised as paid and the individuals concerned are aware of this. I do not feel that we have to justify their roles as this is between us and them. Jon and I also are not paid for doing this contrary to popular belief. If we were I certainly wouldn’t be sat in work now on my lunch hour typing this and instead would be in Kalkan drinking a cool Efes ;D .
Yes we are trying to make some money from this as the cost of maintaining a website like this is not cheap nor is the amount of work that Jon (who also has a full time job) puts in during the evenings and weekends. If it expands wonderful but that is something between us as owners. We are not a public sector organisation so do not have any duty to share this.
Also for clarity, Felicity and The Feds are no longer helpers. The team consists of Brooksie, Joan H and Antler who we now consider to be friends as well as helpers. They all do a fantastic job in helping to make EK the website it is today.
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Mrs EK I agree and hope that this puts this to bed once and for all.
I, also am writing this at work, keeping busy until my lunch break!!!
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If anyone can turn a hobby into a profit making business then fair play to them! The amount of time and energy that Jon and the EK team have put into this website deserves whatever rewards come their way and I hope they do get some financial profit from it (why would anyone want to spend their time and money indefinitely and get nothing in return?) This website is FREE to users so I can't understand why some posters are waffling on about honesty and transparency? EK is not a charity so it's entirely up to them how they fund or run this website. Personally I'm just glad that it exists!
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Jon and Julie,
All I can say is I've been a member of EK for years - from just after it started I think. I just want to say Thank You for all the hard work, time and expense that you have put into the website and the forum. I want to wish you luck in whatever you are trying to achieve from EK. Its difficult enough to be in business without peeple questioning your intentions all the time. IF and it's a big if, you make a fortune out of EK, then I say well done to you.
As long as it's legal and you're not hurting anyone, as far as I can see it's not mine or anyone elses business how you intend to make EK a profitable business.
Keep up with the good work. :)
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Hear, hear Legionaire, Kalkanbelle, Blue Lizard and Turkeyfan! You have expressed my thoughts exactly. All the best Mr and Mrs EK, and thanks and best wishes to you and your helpers, JoanH, Brooksie and the eloquent Antler in all you do :laugh:
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Let's just clarify something for the membership as a whole.
This site and all the people involved past and present have donated their time and in some instances money for nothing to make this work. Economics have changed a lot over the last couple of years and we have to find different ways to make this forum work. Otherwise we lose it.
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Hello
I am quite new visitor to this web site. I found it in summer when I visited kalkan for the first time.
This is the first time that I have posted a message here, but I find myself amazed that some users are complaining. Your site is good and you give independent advice on many things in kalkan.
My family is in Spain France and UK and I travel a lot and it is sometimes difficult to get good independent information.
Keep up your good efforts. Xavi
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It seems quıte sımple to me - If you lıke the sıte use ıt and ıf you dont lıke ıt, dont use ıt.
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The EK forum, it's owners, posters and Helpers have all contributed greatly to my enjoyment of Kalkan.
Long may the spirit of community and sharing (with all the real life goings on that includes) continue.
When I no longer enjoy it, I'll stop visiting. If the business dealings or motivations behind the forum become unnacceptable to me, I'll leave.
In the meantime I'd like to support the positive comments made over the past days.
Considering this was an idea that grew out of a genuine desire to share information about Kalkan, by someone who had the motivation to get the thing off the ground (um, should I say had the influence to motivate someone?) jolly good luck.
And thank you.
LoriLou
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Ek is free,its fun,and full of info for people who "enjoy Kalkan " ,If the EK team is making a big profit,I for one dont give a monkeys how much they make ! I hope the owners can turn Ek into something as big as say..Facebook,and make a fortune.
It seems some of the members interested in EK affairs are villa/apartment owners,if thats the case,when they have ads for the property they are renting why dont they publish all the financial details concerned with the propery...how much they paid for the property...how much they make on a rental...how many properties they have..ect ect,I honestly cant see that happening,
so why would anyone want to have a nose into other peoples private affairs,so good luck to the EK team,keep up the good work........any shares going in the future ? ;D
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I use the forum to gain infromation about Kalkan, it's free, it's informative and funny..... If you don't like what you see you just log off easy.....If EK have turned an hobby into a money making venture, well good luck to them, If they're making loads of money again good luck to them they deserve it, they've put the hours in, now it's pay back time............ Just wish I'd have thought about it first................and I guess that's the reason behind starting this subject..........So again good luck & keep up the good work.......
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Thanks for the support everyone and again a big thank you to our helpers, Antler, JoanH and Brooksie who along with the members make this place special :)
If you would like to be a part of The Enjoy Group keep an eye on www.theenjoygroup.com
Hope you all enjoy the weekend :)
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I love that link to 'estimatedwebsite.com'. I have a domain name for sale that was appraised as being worth between USD 500 - 1000 max. I also have a potential buyer. Estimatedwebsite says my domain name is worth a whopping $107,426 ! Now I can show that to the prospect and he'll think he's getting a real bargain. I love it! ;D
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Glad to help Cosetta :)
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For goodness sake, this site is called ENJOY!! Kalkan. It's given me so much information in the past for FREE and many a good laugh so I just want to say thanks guys and girls you're doing a good job cheers!!
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Thanks Clara
We cant please all the people all the time but it seems we certainly please the majority :)
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Some interesting responses but I'd like to invite those posting to actually read what my first posting on this thread actually said. It appears most didn't, as occasionally happens on the forum, with some people reading words that weren't actually there ! It was supportive of the forum and the great work it does in providing information on Kalkan.
Mr EK referred to "what my issue is", Alan wrote "I take objection to EK developing the site" and Mr EK referred to me "crusading for members". One poster referred to people "complaining", presumably meaning me. Where have I said or shown any of those things ?
I was also interested that on one of Mr EK's postings on the thread, he subsequently changed it to indentify who I was. Why ? What was the motive of that ?
I have made no reference to or personally criticised any of those people who assist in the site but we see a series of posts saying how good they and the time they give EK. I don't disagree but I didn't make any reference to it and it had nothing to do with the thread.
Various posters indicated I was asking for commercially sensitive or confidential information concerning EK. Sorry boys, I didn't ! It just interested me, and maybe other members, that as EK is now recruiting salaried employees, I wondered where EK was going.
I'd like to refer to a quote from Mr EK, dated 8/1/08. "As existing members may know I like to stress that this is your Kalkan website and forum, please feel free to ask any questions you may have on the forum, I also actively welcome and encourage feedback about EnjoyKalkan".
I'm afraid that if you do, you get the sort of disproportionate over-reaction I did, a lot of which had no bearing on the subject matter of the thread itself !
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Maybe Its just the way your posts have come across Denners,the way I read them they seemed to me a bit like you could be "being nosey",but maybe that is not the case.
I still feel that the Enjoy group has every right NOT to discuss anything concerned with EK,with you If they dont want to,just as you wouldnt discuss any of your goings on with a complete stranger.
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You may well be right Mr Fidimax but EK is a public forum. However, I don't think this thread is likely to go anywhere given the posts that have been written and the tone of them. Nite all..
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Sorry, just a thought and very good news for all members of EK, Mr EK stated that " this is your Kalkan website and forum". As EK makes its millions, presumably we will all get a share of it ! My bank account details for the divis is...........................................
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:) Denners
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It is a great site, there's absolutely no doubt about that, but I do feel it is having a more and more commercialised feel about it.
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For God's sake bring this bloody thread to a close - it's getting boring and to be frank does anyone really give a toss?
if you don't like it don't come on - simples!
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If you don't like the thread don't read it ;)
It is surprising to see how rapidly the site and associated development have been directed towards income generation over the last 6 months or so, with no real information issued as to why? It is, after all, this forum - and the contributors to it - that have driven the success of the site.
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If it was subscription based people would still bloody moan...i wonder how many would stick around if it were?...if you don't like the adverts don't click on to the links..and don't book your transfers etc with Adda....i do neither but i stiil have FREE access to a friendly site that gives a mix of information and discussion and until recently fun!(remember that?)..it's also worth remembering that many people that use it advertise property rental free of charges and commission..why is it easier to knock than praise?...i guess thats life? ::)
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Denners. That was so funny, what a wind up and how you got so many people sucked in to thinking that anybody in their right mind would make such comments. Brilliant. Well done.
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EK is a forum. The 'local council' does not know all it's tenants. EK allows individuals to tell their experiences of a wonderful place, with many wonderful places init(!) called Kalkan.
We would all like to live in a world where everythng is free. Have you watched, and suffered, the commercial breaks on ITV and freeview in the UK.
EK ads are around the edge, not in your face to spoil the main plot!
Life is real....EK has to survive, and it does it in a successful - always trouble with this spelling-and non-intrusive way. Up EK! :) :)