The Kalkan Taxi Debate

[Shirley Burley]

Wouldn''t it be nice if forum members were as passionate about sponsoring Kalkan''s children, or inquiring as to the success of the recent Bring & Buy sale, as they were about trying to dictate to the taxi drivers what they are or aren''t allowed to charge.

Kalkan business people are within their rights to charge whatever they like - no one is going to the more expensive restaurants and saying ''your prices are too high, you must halve them or no one will eat here again'', so why the taxis?!  Just because you contribute to a Kalkan Forum it does not give you the right to dictate to the people of Kalkan how they should run their businesses and what they should charge you.

This is a chat forum not a hotline to the Kalkan mayor.  Leave the taxi drivers alone - if you don''t want to pay the price then, as has been said before, walk.

[holidayfever]

Yes Shirley burley, I did infact donate to the animals of Kalkan when I was out in Kalkan, I also sometimes used the Taxis, however that is not the point i was not dictating  just expressing a valid point of view, I save up very hard ever year to go on holiday, I enjoyed the wonderful food in Kalkan and although it isnt cheap I still found the service and the food good value for money, however if they increased this by even 20% I could not then afford to eat every night on holiday, and I would have to make a choice Trip, Night out ,Taxi, it is that simple ,and for me the eaiest one to give up is the taxi,  so if I returned to Kalkan I would make really sure where I stayed was in walking distance, and I would rather give my taxi fare saved to the animals or children, but I dont feel guilty about not giving to every worthy course I do charity work in England for people with HIV/AIDS ,RSPCA AND CANCER CHARITIES, again I work hard for the money I earn and therre is only so much I can give away to Charity or waste on Taxis, so you are right I will Walk.

[felicity]

Well said Holidayfever - I was just about to write the same thing - you took the words right out of my mouth.  Nobody is dictating who should charge what or how people should run their businesses - simply giving a valid point of view on an open chat forum on things that please and displease them.

As regards one charity over another - as you say - if we all gave to every worthwhile cause - we would not be able afford to visit kalkan LOL!  I too would love to donate to animals, children etc etc etc but people''s pockets are not endless bottomless pits.  Now that I know that there is such a worthy cause as the children in Kalkan - I will review the current charity support that I give over the year and maybe drop one in favour of another - but I do not think that anybody should assume that because we write about the taxis we are either trying to dictate rates and because we havent written regarding the Kalkan children that we are so unfeeling that we don''t care about such things.... Life is all about choice and sacrifices - this year it will be meals over taxis for some - next year who knows!! 

[Blue Lizard]

very little info has been given on the sponsoring thread although i have posted on there...as for dictating isn''t that what the taxi drivers did to the courtesy bus driver (lovely man for who nothing is too much trouble)who was left cut and bleeding for doing his job?this man also only has a short time to earn his money,when the hotel closes..no bus...is it only taxi drivers that are allowed to earn a living?unlike the taxi drivers he doesn''t have a vehicle to earn a living.... i won''t post on this subject anymore as everyone has there right to an opinion and i have made mine..what next? restaurant owners  standing outside other restaurants demanding they stop serving food?

[Enjoy Kalkan]

I know passions run high in this thread but please could I ask everyone just to count to ten before posting to ensure other members opinions are respected even if not agreed with.

Thanks

Jon 

[kalkanfan]

Felicity - does "not trying to dictate rates" include your "suggestion" that they should halve their fares?

[Buster]

Wouldn''t it be nice if forum members were as passionate about sponsoring Kalkan''''s children, or inquiring as to the success of the recent Bring & Buy sale, as they were about trying to dictate to the taxi drivers what they are or aren''t allowed to charge.

Kalkan business people are within their rights to charge whatever they like - no one is going to the more expensive restaurants and saying ''''your prices are too high, you must halve them or no one will eat here again'''', so why the taxis?!  Just because you contribute to a Kalkan Forum it does not give you the right to dictate to the people of Kalkan how they should run their businesses and what they should charge you.

This is a chat forum not a hotline to the Kalkan mayor.  Leave the taxi drivers alone - if you don''t want to pay the price then, as has been said before, walk.

It pains me to have to reply to posts like this because I believe all this negative talk about taxis affects the tourist industry I am so desperate to promote.

Argumentative and negative posts can have a detrimental affect on the Kalkan people''s livelihoods and people should think hard and long before posting comments that make topics like this go round and round in ever decreasing circles.

I will PM you Shirley because your argument does not stack up. and I don''t want to post on this topic anymore.

Regards   Buster.

[Kim]

Yep, I agree Buster.  I actually posted a topic earlier in response to Shirley Burley, but it has not been posted.  At the time i overlapped with Jon''s post, so don''t know what has happened to it?  To re-iterate, I will happily continue to donate to lthose local charities in Kalkan who know me, but wonder if the taxi cartel''s have donated anything to their local charities, from their ''tourist'' profits made from price hikes?  I can choose any restaurant I like out of 100+ in Kalkan and therefore can decide if I want Pide and salad one night or am prepared to pay for a more expensive meal with a wonderful view and great service. 

We spend over 40 nights a year in Kalkan because we are both still working, but still are prepared to eat out every night as we feel that it helps the Kalkan economy and provides us with the ability to meet local people and be a part of Kalkan life as best we can.  We will happily use Kalkan taxis in the same way, if they realign their prices to the levels that are fair.  I''ll then quite happily donate the money saved, to the Kalkan charities I support.

[Shirley Burley]

As I have responded to you privately Buster, my ''argument'' was not an argument - more an expression of frustration at a totally pointless and offensive thread.

My frustration was at the continuation of the taxi ''debate'' (although I''m not sure the word ''debate'' entirely describes it - I''m sure poor Emre would agree with me on this!), when there is really no good that can come of it.  The taxi prices will not go down, and continuing to discuss this subject is not going to change that.

My real point was purely that the response to the taxi subject had sparked off 5 pages of responses, and Lantana''s posts re the Bring & Buy and Sponsorship of a Kalkan child hadn''t even attracted a single comment.  I can understand that further information had been promised, but surely a show of interest or beginning of a discussion wouldn''t have hurt - the posting just disappeared underneath a pile of other threads as if no one was remotely interested.

[jenistreet]

Hi - Iv just booked a villa in kalkan for the first time and was told i wouldnt need a hire car because i could easily get taxis - shuttle buses etc and also free taxis? from beach clubs ?? - after reading the forum i know i cannot afford the taxis every night. we would need 2 taxis for the 8 of us and on a 14 day holiday that would add too much to our budget. The last time i was in turkey i did get around using dolmus and cheap taxis. I am now looking to rent cars and drink a lot less. I really would have used taxis if they charged less. It is a huge shame that all the good thing im reading about kalkan have been soured by this one bad thing. Im still looking forward to the holiday.

[vicksen]

I haven''t up till now made any comments about taxi prices, believing that people are free, if they feel something is too expensive for them, not to buy it, be it a product or a service.

However, I''m beginning to feel that this thread has been blown up out of all proportion, and people are posting comments that are really unfair, giving a totally skewed picture of Kalkan.
Taxis in Kalkan aren''t any more expensive than they are anywhere else in Turkey, be it KaÅŸ, Fethiye or Antalya. A ride of 2.5 km in KaÅŸ, for instance, will cost you 14 YTL in the daytime, more after midnight.

But I wonder if people from the UK have any idea about the costs of keeping a vehicle on the road in Turkey?

In the UK, costs are low - third party insurance is cheap (assuming you''re not a 20 year-old with drunk driving convictions); road tax is cheap, MOTs are cheap. Petrol, whilst not cheap, is still less than Turkey.

Current petrol cost is Turkey is 3YTL a litre, (£1.33). Diesel is 2.70 YTL a litre (£1.20).
Buying a car in Turkey is very expensive - by the time you pay 18% KDV (VAT) and 20% on top of that ÖDV (special luxury tax), then the other taxes, you''re paying nearly as much again to the government as the basic car price was.
Normal 3rd party insurance is 224 YTL for a car, but a taxi is much more expensive, as you might expect, at 554YTL (£246) a year, comprehensive insurance is on top of that, and varies with the price of the car. Assuming a newish car, you could expect another 800YTL, (£355)
There is a visa which costs 110 YTL  (£48); an emissions test which is not expensive, about £8, but you have to drive to Fethiye from Kalkan to have it done.
The vehicle tax is the real killer - 986 YTL (£438) a year for a car the size of a taxi

All of this is to the government.

Add to that the cost of your services, tyres and repairs, and cleaning.

Then add in the many, many and varied assorted fines for infringements of the traffic laws and the revenue laws (and before anybody leaps in and says people should stick to the law, believe me, there are so many ways you can infringe both the traffic laws and the revenue laws all unknowingly that there''s hardly a driver in the land who hasn''t been hit with a fine or a penalty for something!

And finally add in the sheer difficulty, frustration and time involved in negotiating your way through actually getting all the necessary bits of paper, the time spent in endless queues at the Tax Offices, the Police, the Visa station et cetara et cetara.

Not to mention the waiting in the heat at fun places like airports.

So come on folks, don''t be so hard on these chaps.
Try driving a car in this country for a year or so, and then see if you still feel they have an easy life, and their prices are too high!

[DRBD]

Vicksen

Thank you for that update and appreciate it.  We have no need for the use of a taxi as are very close to what we need and do hire a car.

 However the one time we did feel the need was last year when we had just arrived and went to the supermarket to do our stock up and had a rather intimidating time as the supermarket were going to deliver our large order and the the taxi driver outside made sure they were not.

In the end because of his attitude we walked it all up ourselves with the help of a member of staff from the shop who offered to come with us.  Not a good example of customer care, and after a long 12 day from UK to Kalkan feeling very tired we just did not need it

However have found most of the drivers a little more relaxed in their attitude of late.

[bluefudge11]

Agreed DRBD - it is not only the cost, it is the attitude. During a 2 week stay, I was verbally abused & intimidated. I witnessed roadblocking, shouting and public disorder during courtesy bus disputes. Did I still use Taxis? only when needs must. Did I leave a tip?  Yes, never eat yellow snow! (no i didn''t actually say that)
 I also would dispute that taxi fares are the same throughout Turkey - (maybe they are supposed to be) but doing the same journey a number of times in Kalkan resulted in significant variation, and we certainly seemed to go much further for less when we were in  Fethiye.
On balance we had one Taxi driver that we used for a couple of days out, going off the beaten track and learning a little about the "real" Turkey - He was a great guy, Did he get a tip? Yes of course!

The cost of doing business is no excuse for poor behaviour

[bankieken]

Vicksen - Got to dispute your quoted taxi prices of 14YTL for a 2.5km trip.  We have an apartment 1.1km from the centre.  Before the taxi price hike we paid no more than 6YTL into town.  The price has doubled and increases again after midnight.  There is very little consistency in pricing despite the so called metering regime.

I have no problem with free enterprise and accept the high costs that these guys may have to bear to operate legally.  However the attempt to force tourists to use there services by preventing the supermarkets from running there delivery service or preventing a local dolmus from running isn''t acceptable.

Rarely use the taxis last year and unlikely to be using them this year either. Far better hiring a car (even with the price of petrol) or negotiating a fixed rate with one of the local drivers who appreciates that accepting the old fare rate is better in the long run for repeat business / transfers etc.

[alantj]

I think this is an important issue for many people, especially family groups.

Last year after the taxi fare rise, and subsequent banning of the supermarket drop off service and use of hotel shuttles, all of our guests commented on the cost of the taxis. Our villa usually has parties of 6-8 staying, so they faced additional costs of approx £16 per day for just one return trip into kalkan (That''s 2 taxis at 10TL each way). Customer reviews on our website now warn of the cost of even short trips in Kalkan and two of our regular repeat customers have told us, the additional cost was a major factor in their decision not to come back to Kaklan this year.

I would agree that the taxi drivers have a right to set the cost at whatever level they find economic for them providing they do not prevent other services from operating. It is this, as much as the actuall prices, that has annoyed people.

For this year we are offering a package price that includes car hire from Dalaman, so far this has been successful in attracting bookings but seems a bit riduculous to have to do this for a villa 1km from the town centre.       

Regards

Alan

NB Admittedly there is an upside, by getting into the routine of walking both ways we actually saved money and certainly finished the holiday fitter and a few pounds lighter than normal.

[vicksen]

Bankieken - the Kas taxi price of 14 YTL for 2.5 km daytime was one I paid personally a week ago, so dispute away, that wasn''t hearsay, but fact.

As to supermarkets...
The supermarket deliveries of purchases were legal. No one had a problem with them.
What did cause the problem was that people were getting delivered as well as shopping.
(And am I wrong in remembering that just prior to the problems beginning, I read people on this forum gloating about how they avoided taxi fares simply by buying a few items of shopping, and getting driven home with it...?)

Apart from the rights and wrongs of supermarkets depriving taxi drivers of their livelihood, this was illegal.
The supermarkets were not licensed or insured to carry passengers, and had the vehicles been stopped in routine traffic checks, or worse, had there been an accident, the passengers would not have been insured, and the driver and the supermarket owner would have been in right soapy with the law.

Had that happened, I am in no doubt that there would have been angry posts on here about people operating illegal transport services!

Alantj - your parties of 8 people are actually only paying one pound each for each trip into Kalkan - surely two pounds a day for transport on the cost of somebody''s holiday isn''t a lot? The cost of one bottle of beer?
Or they could of course walk, if as you say it''s one single kilometre?

If there were to be a dolmus, it wouldn''t cost less than that either.  (even in Antalya, which, being a city and busy, has its dolmuses running full most of the time, the cheapest dolmus fare last year for the shortest trip was 2YTL).

The villa owners could of course offer prepaid taxi service tokens included in their villa rental. Or knock 2 pounds per person per day off the cost of renting...

At the end of the day, taxi drivers aren''t well off, and do not make a lot of cash driving taxis. That''s a fact.
Villa owners, by any standards, are wealthy people , owners of at least two homes, who are also making extra money renting out their second home.

And before anyone asks, by the way, I neither own nor have ever owned, a taxi, nor am I related to anyone who does.

But surely anyone can see the inherent unfairness in the demands that taxi drivers should work for little or nothing in order to subsidise villa owners?

[kalkanfan]

Vicksen

I''m with you on this one and the idea of villa owners reducing their daily rental charge is inspired!!  I think it puts them in the same position some have been advocating for the taxi drivers - you reduce your fares and I will use your taxi or put another way you reduce your rental charge and I will rent your villa - brilliant!!

[bluefudge11]

Yes - Villa owners reducing prices because the Taxi Drivers have doubled their price - Inspired!

What next, Villa owners suppyling free food because the restaurant prices have gone up or having rowing boats in their pools because boat trips have gone up - love it!

Glad I don''t own a Villa   

[J.]

There are no winners in this thread.
Is it another way of making the richer people pay more taxes. Is it justified.
A year ago most people were happy paying the taxi fares now they are not.
What has happened. The fuel fares have not gone up by this amount.
Are all taxi fares in Turkey subject to the same regulations.
WHATS GOING ON!.

[vicksen]

J, please read my original post. The costs of car owning have spiralled in Turkey - not just fuel, but ALL the taxes.
This is the government.
They want more money, they put taxes up...and up....and UP.
There''s nothing we can do about it.

Everybody is hit by it, car owners, lorry owners, taxi drivers. It''s not just Kalkan, it''s all of Turkey.

Foreigners not living here obviously don''t see what''s going on, aren''t affected by the other bits, so hit out at the bit that affects them most, which is taxi fares.
But it''s not going to change in any hurry, so I''m afraid you''re going to have to either smile and pay it, grimace and pay it, or walk.

But for any favour, stop demonising a group of people just trying to make a living.