Kalkan Turkey Forum - EnjoyKalkan.com

Travel and Accommodation => Flights and Travel => Topic started by: Enjoy Kalkan on August 27, 2007, 07:15:58 PM

Title: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Enjoy Kalkan on August 27, 2007, 07:15:58 PM
Hi,

As almost everyone is aware there has been some discussion about the Taxi situation in Kalkan. I believe it is only right that everyone has their say, and I am very pleased to exclusively announce that Emre, a Kalkan Taxi driver has agreed to come on EnjoyKalkan to tell us the Taxi drivers side.

I''m sure you will all join me in thanking Emre for taking the time to discuss the Taxi drivers views.

Jon
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Kalkan Taxi on August 27, 2007, 07:50:11 PM
Hı this is Emre the taxi driver from Kalkan if you ask me questions I will try to answer all I can. First I want to tell you about the taxi fares. I know you all think that they are really expensive. But we can''t do anything about fares because our taximeters is under control of a company like a local government who are responsible with taxis. They choose the prices of taximeters and only we can do is to obey those prices. And also they are not so expensive because we have been using the same taxi fares for 2 years and it had changed this year. But in these 2 years petrol (gas) prices goes up so much. But nobody said anything about this. Why doesnt anybody complain about this then? Why didnt anybody say that; "Hey, petrol (gas) fares going up why doesnt anybody do some increases to taxi fares?". I know you come to Kalkan for holiday and not spend so much. You have to save money as you can. But we all taxi drivers trying to do best for you. For example most of the taxi drivers takes 10 liras when taximeter shows 11 or 11.40 liras etc.
And you want to know why taxis move to car park. Our municipality wanted us to do it because they are going to build something over there as a park so they moved us to car park.
And about stopping the shuttle busses we -the taxi drivers- talked with the supermarkets owners to stop the free delivery services because during all time from the time they started to doing free service our works gone really low because people who dont want to pay for taxi they go to supermarket and buy a bread and a chips or something else and got the free service and can you all please tell me where we are going to earn money from? So we talked with supermarkets and stop the free service.
And another thing you want to know is what happened to  Samira Deluxe shuttle service. You know we call it Samira Deluxe Hotel shuttle service. So it has to take only Samira Deluxe Hotel''s customers. But as most of you know that shuttle service takes all people staying villas around Samira Deluxe Hotel. You just go to hotel and get a beer or something else and you have right to use that shuttle service. Then from where the taxi drivers earn money? Not form supermarkets not form the villas? From where?
And you complain about that the taxi fares in Kalkan is more expensive then Ä°stanbul. Let me tell you the reason for it. In Kalkan we -taxi drivers- only work for 6 months in winter there is not anywhere that we can get money from. We just spend what we earn during the summer. But in istanbul or in any city they work for all year. Then could you please tell me if we cost you the taxi fares as same as Ä°stanbul''s will you come Kalkan and stay here for 2 weeks in villas also in winter? If we can work for 12 months then you all be sure that the prices will be same with the other cities.

These are the things I can remember now that you comnplained about.But if you have any other questions please can you write me back and ask for them

Regards

Emre
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Chucky on August 27, 2007, 08:16:28 PM
Thank you for taking the time to answer some of the questions and giving your side Emre. I know you work to supplement your income for university
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: jinfizzz on August 27, 2007, 08:21:00 PM
Thanks Emre.  I am sure everyone on here will understand the reasons behind the fare increases.  However a lot of people will be making other arrangements, whether it be on foot or by renting a car, so the taxi drivers are still not going to earn the same as their colleagues in Istanbul.  They will in fact be worse off than before.  It''s a catch 22 situation and one that will not be resolved easily.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Cosetta on August 27, 2007, 08:28:52 PM
Emre it is very kind of you to give us your opinion.  You say that petrol costs have gone up.  Yes, you are right.  But taxis do not use benzene, they use yurtgaz.  And yurtgaz is YTL 1 / litre.  A car with yurtgaz can go and come from Dalaman airport with YTL 45 or less.

The increase in taxi fares is much more than the increase in the price of yurtgaz.  If there are too many taxis, not every taxi will earn well.  Too many restaurants, too many taxis.  Difficult for everyone to earn well.  Some people will have to find another way to make money.

It is true as you say that shopkeepers, taxi drivers, hotel and restaurant workers and travel agencies work only 6 months.  Many workers do construction in the wintertime to earn extra money, as you know.  Some look after people''s villas or their gardens.  Some go home to their villages.  We wish you could work here for 12 months of every year, but it is not possible for so many workers to do that.

Some tourists have already decided not to come to Kalkan next year.  They say they will go to Kas or somewhere else.  The taxi problem is not going to help Kalkan have more visitors.  It is not going to give you more business because people will start to walk, or hire a car or a motorbike. 

I hope you can find a good solution and a better way for everyone.

Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Kalkan Taxi on August 27, 2007, 10:06:44 PM
Emre it is very kind of you to give us your opinion.  You say that petrol costs have gone up.  Yes, you are right.  But taxis do not use benzene, they use yurtgaz.  And yurtgaz is YTL 1 / litre.  A car with yurtgaz can go and come from Dalaman airport with YTL 45 or less.

The increase in taxi fares is much more than the increase in the price of yurtgaz.  If there are too many taxis, not every taxi will earn well.  Too many restaurants, too many taxis.  Difficult for everyone to earn well.  Some people will have to find another way to make money.

It is true as you say that shopkeepers, taxi drivers, hotel and restaurant workers and travel agencies work only 6 months.  Many workers do construction in the wintertime to earn extra money, as you know.  Some look after people''''s villas or their gardens.  Some go home to their villages.  We wish you could work here for 12 months of every year, but it is not possible for so many workers to do that.

Some tourists have already decided not to come to Kalkan next year.  They say they will go to Kas or somewhere else.  The taxi problem is not going to help Kalkan have more visitors.  It is not going to give you more business because people will start to walk, or hire a car or a motorbike. 

I hope you can find a good solution and a better way for everyone.



Yes you are right some of the taxis work with Yurtgaz but it is not so cheap as you think. Coz my old taxi was working with yurtgaz but they cost us 0.20 lira per km and dalaman is 150 km one way and if you calculate it  300 x 0,20= 60 liras there and back. But if we talk about the new bigger ones they work with diesel and it costs us 45 or less thats true but thinkj about that we pay 7 lira for tunnel and 7 lira for parking and the remain money is for the work we done. Because you don''t know this but we go to dalaman sometimes 2 3 times a day and we get tired and who is going to pay it if we cost it 60 liras for dalaman or what are we going to earn then??Can you tell me this? Also you told me that some people says that they are going to go to KaÅŸ but if taxi fares change it changes all around turkey. Then how they are going to run away from increases?? :)
And about the counts of restaurants we can''t do anything about it. Everyone can do what they want as a job. No body can effect no one do do any job. I think in this way. Hope not be so rude.

Regards

Emre
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: sally on August 27, 2007, 11:09:48 PM
7YTL for the tunnel??

Has the toll increased since May?

It was (single trip in a taxi) 3YTL.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: chorleyboy on August 27, 2007, 11:30:32 PM
Hi Emre, how much will it cost me to get from town to the Paradise hotel at night, before 10pm?
Also, as there will be five of us, does this mean we will be charged more for a taxi as here in the UK where I live most taxis carry four passengers but can provide larger vehicles but at an extra cost?
Do most taxis only carry four passengers?
Thanks for your time in putting across your view, but can you please try to understand that some of us are on a budget, especially when bringing the family over too. Three children can seriously damage your wallet!!! Trust me!! :)
So,yes, I for one have to take taxi fares into consideration, so to get around this, we will probably stay at our villa a couple more nights than we were planning to, so we can hopefully get a taxi back up the hill once I have had many Efes when we do go into the town for a meal and drinks :)
So I personally do not think most members on here are being mean thinking of walking sometimes, they too will be on a budget and have to think about how much they used to spend on taxis before the increase.
I understand you have to make a living, but I can say the same for myself. But I do know if I could only work six months a year, I would not even be able to pay my bills, let alone have a holiday in Kalkan.
When we finally get to Kalkan it will be the first time abroad for nine,(yes 9) years as we have over this time booked holidays in Wales and England, staying in farm cottages, but being able to use my car to get out and about.
But good luck with your taxi, I hope you have many customers and prosperity.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Alfaman on August 28, 2007, 12:00:18 AM
Waiters, chefs etc only have a six month earning season, but have alternative employment during winter, returning home to work in the family business, or finding alternative seasonal employment or studying.  Taxi drivers hoping to earn a year''s wages in six months are being a bit overambitious!  It''s not a particularly strenuous occupation (although maybe it is given the standard of driving!)
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Kalkan Taxi on August 28, 2007, 08:21:03 AM
7YTL for the tunnel??

Has the toll increased since May?

It was (single trip in a taxi) 3YTL.
Hi Sally
Yes it is 3YTL but for one way.Do not forget we go to Dalaman and not stay there :) we come back to Kalkan also. So it costs us 6YTL and if we take our customers with minibus it costs us 7 lira for tunnel. Sorry for writing the tunnel fare wrongly but when I wrote it I was just arrived from Dalaman with my minibus and I just remember it :D
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Kalkan Taxi on August 28, 2007, 08:24:45 AM
Hi Emre, how much will it cost me to get from town to the Paradise hotel at night, before 10pm?
Also, as there will be five of us, does this mean we will be charged more for a taxi as here in the UK where I live most taxis carry four passengers but can provide larger vehicles but at an extra cost?
Do most taxis only carry four passengers?
Thanks for your time in putting across your view, but can you please try to understand that some of us are on a budget, especially when bringing the family over too. Three children can seriously damage your wallet!!! Trust me!! :)
So,yes, I for one have to take taxi fares into consideration, so to get around this, we will probably stay at our villa a couple more nights than we were planning to, so we can hopefully get a taxi back up the hill once I have had many Efes when we do go into the town for a meal and drinks :)
So I personally do not think most members on here are being mean thinking of walking sometimes, they too will be on a budget and have to think about how much they used to spend on taxis before the increase.
I understand you have to make a living, but I can say the same for myself. But I do know if I could only work six months a year, I would not even be able to pay my bills, let alone have a holiday in Kalkan.
When we finally get to Kalkan it will be the first time abroad for nine,(yes 9) years as we have over this time booked holidays in Wales and England, staying in farm cottages, but being able to use my car to get out and about.
But good luck with your taxi, I hope you have many customers and prosperity.

Hi
Sorry I have to go to a daliy excursions with my customers so not have time to answer yours but I will reply it when I get back to Kalkan.
Is there anyone want to do rafting?? :D ;)
See you in a min
Bye
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: holidayfever on August 28, 2007, 09:48:49 AM
Thanks Kalkan Taxi for joining the debate, and I guess passing the information on to other taxi drivers, we all as holiday makers and taxi drivers have our point to make, we were ok we caught 1 taxi a day and squeezed 5 people in so the cost not too bad, however if we had just been a couple and taken a daily trip or more we couldnt have afforded to do it, or we could but it would have made a big hole in the budget, which would have meant maybe no trips, or maybe missing a meal out or a few less beers as we couldnt afford the wine anyway, so some one will miss out, if you go with a budget of say £1000 for 2 weeks9(Iknow that wil sound a lot to you as it is also to us, we have to save all year for this, )then the budget is £1000 SO WE HAVE TO WORK OUT HOW WE WOULD BEST SPEND IT.I can not give up the beach club or a nice meal, so when I return to Kalkan I will make sure my Hotel Villa is near town so we can cut out on taxi''s and walk the short distance, so now Villa owners and hotels miss out. It is a hard one to solve but at least it is now been talked about by someone in the trade so hope it helps us all.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Lantana on August 28, 2007, 10:28:17 AM
Waiters, chefs etc only have a six month earning season, but have alternative employment during winter, returning home to work in the family business, or finding alternative seasonal employment or studying.  Taxi drivers hoping to earn a year''''s wages in six months are being a bit overambitious!  It''''s not a particularly strenuous occupation (although maybe it is given the standard of driving!)

Perhaps it is not understood by those who suggest that taxi drivers and other seasonally employed workers can all find alternative employment in winter, that for the vast majority of seasonal workers there are  no alternative employment opportunities. A little research demonstrates that this is an  ill informed argument. It is not worth responding to the rather cheap jibe about taxi driving not being strenuous.

 The annual unemployment rate in Turkey is 10.2% (in the UK it is 5.4%). There is no unemployment benefit in Turkey.  A third of the working population in Turkey is employed in the agricultural sector, this is seasonal, poorly paid and generally without any benefits.  In 2006, a survey carried out by the World Bank showed that over 60% of households in Turkey dependent on the agricultural sector for their living, earned less than £1,800 per YEAR  from that employment.

It is largely from this sector that taxi drivers, waiters, construction workers etc come, forced to seek their living in other forms of industry as earnings from the land cannot possibly support their families.

Annual inflation is 7.49 % in Turkey . It is less than 2.3% in the UK.

The average weekly wage in the UK for 2006 was £447.00

The average Monthly wage in Turkey (across all sectors of industry) is 1,144 ytl which works out at approx £125 per week.

The Thomas Cook Annual cost of Living survey for Turkey states that prices in Turkey are approximately one quarter less than in the UK, yet wages are more than 75% less than in the UK.

Should a taxi driver manage to find work in the construction sector in Kalkan in the winter, he can expect a daily wage of 35 ytl (or £14 ) and for that he will work a minimum 12 hour day.

Last year, a taxi driver I know got seasonal employment driving a minibus for Bati Antalya. For the Kalkan/Antalya round trip, he was paid 10 lira.  The round trip was over 350 miles and took over 8 hours. The 10 lira he earned daily  made it just possible for his family to scrape by in the winter.

If you don''t know about the economy of this country do some research. Anyone who can use the internet can find this information. Making sweeping statements about the availability of work - which are completely without foundation  - serves only to mislead readers and highlights the lack of credibility of those making the statements.

Lantana
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: felicity on August 28, 2007, 11:03:34 AM
I think at the end of the day - regular visitors to Kalkan will vote with their feet and simply stay in villas/apartments/hotels that are within walking distance to town so they don''t have to use the taxis - coz as has already been pointed out - people scrimp and save for their 2 weeks in paradise and will not want to give much of it away to taxi drivers - and has been shown by people on this forum that it can run into hundreds of pounds if you use taxis 2 or 3 times a day for 2 weeks - a not inconsiderable amount. First timers to kalkan will still use taxis and no doubt will think they are of a comparable price to elsewhere in the world (if not Turkey).  I appreciate that taxi drivers have to make a living by earning all their money in 6 months - but what I think is not good for kalkan, for tourism for locals or visitors are the reports of near gang violence occurring outside hotels like the Samira, intimidating guests and holidaymakers - that is NOT acceptable.  Also - I don''t like the hordes of taxis outside each supermarket - hounding people coming out - it is intimidating for some people (fortunately - I am not easily intimidated) - Emre - and Kalkantaxi - can you give a reply to this? 

Cheers!
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Enjoy Kalkan on August 28, 2007, 11:12:45 AM
An excellent balanced post Lantana. Thank you.

Please could I also remind everyone that its nice that Emre has come on the site to let us know the Taxi drivers viewpoint an angle other websites do not have! Please do not use opportunity as a personal attack and instead use this opportunity for exchanging valid points.

Thanks
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Lorretta on August 28, 2007, 11:16:49 AM
Yes an extremely eloquent post Lantana, it really puts things into perspective.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Cosetta on August 28, 2007, 11:22:13 AM
Emre bey, no one says taxi drivers should not earn money.  Of course you have to earn more money than the cost of the trip.  The price to the airport is okay.  No one is complaining about the trip to the airport. The problem are the local taxi prices.  The price from Kalkan center to say Samira Deluxe or to Kalamar.  The distances are short, the prices are high.

There are many people who come here who have a limited amount of money to spend.  Not every foreigner has lots of money!  If the tourists or residents who live here decide that a taxi is too expensive, they will walk or they will hire a car. 

Sağlık ve refah içinde yaşasın!

May you live in good health and prosperity.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Kalamar Bay on August 28, 2007, 01:41:04 PM


Merhaba Emre.

Thanks for the defence''s side of the debate.

I am concerned though that you state that, you, the taxi drivers talked to the supermarkets about the free '' goodwill '' service they provide to their customers. Have you been sucessfull in stopping this valued customer service practice, please advise...???. I really hope not though. Not everyone uses the service when they have only bought a couple of items. Myself and partner have property in deepest Kalamar Bay and when stocking up on weekly groceries etc we find this a very helpful service when loaded down with upto 6,7,8 bags. Whilst we do not expect to get a free service from the supermarkets it is always nice to be offered.

We would often walk down to the taxi rank with shopping and take a taxi anyway if the delivery service was being used by someone else.

I think you may well find it counter productive to alienate the people you aim to provide a service for.

Regards

 
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Blue Lizard on August 28, 2007, 01:47:38 PM
sureley if taxis are metered correctly the same journey by different taxis should be the same price?we were quite a way out to walk in the heat and were charged different prices by different taxis...some differences were unbelievable :o
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: mouse on August 28, 2007, 04:18:53 PM
Well said Lantana.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Chrisjust1attheMerkez... on August 28, 2007, 05:19:37 PM
Emre .Thank you for your thoughts and explanations. Personally as I have a "house up the hill "I have to accept the going rate and the increase in 1 journey is only about 1 .5 efes.
I agree some visitors abused the "free supermarket service" but the changes may cause waves that will affect the taxi market more adversely than has been thought.
If a family of 4 decide to rent a car for their airport transfers ....do their shopping... bits & bobs...and then drive down to town for the evening. The only taxi fare could be the journey home.Economically it may now be cheaper - I havent worked it out yet.
But all  will lose out  if the good will to make the Kalkan experince something special is lost
I suggest the supermarket shuttle  be reinstated  if the client buys more than ?? 100 or 125 lira. a family shop plus wine can easily be  at this level. We always tip the driver who helps deliver to the villa door. - especially the large water bottles.
economics will dictate.. who said "you can never buck the markets "?


Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Kalkan Taxi on August 28, 2007, 06:01:03 PM
Emre bey, no one says taxi drivers should not earn money.  Of course you have to earn more money than the cost of the trip.  The price to the airport is okay.  No one is complaining about the trip to the airport. The problem are the local taxi prices.  The price from Kalkan center to say Samira Deluxe or to Kalamar.  The distances are short, the prices are high.

There are many people who come here who have a limited amount of money to spend.  Not every foreigner has lots of money!  If the tourists or residents who live here decide that a taxi is too expensive, they will walk or they will hire a car. 

Sağlık ve refah içinde yaşasın!

May you live in good health and prosperity.

Hi Cosetta;
Then you always taling about taximeter fares then think about this there are 5 beach parks they you dont pay for taxi service and we do this several times in a day and we get fixed prices from the beach parks. For example yesterday or the day before I dont remember well but I took a customer from Akbel the small village on the hill on the way to Patara and took them to Kalkan Beach Park and they just pay me 10YTL for that service but taximeter costs more then 15 nearly 17 YTL and who is going to pay us those 7YTL to me? And we do this several times in a day we go to Ä°BO beach and take 5.50 YTL fixed price from there and take the customer where they want anywhere in Kalkan. No body calculates these. Please do not think these in only a one way. Think everything from both sides.

Regards

Emre
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Kalkan Taxi on August 28, 2007, 06:26:53 PM


Merhaba Emre.

Thanks for the defence''''s side of the debate.

I am concerned though that you state that, you, the taxi drivers talked to the supermarkets about the free '''' goodwill '''' service they provide to their customers. Have you been sucessfull in stopping this valued customer service practice, please advise...???. I really hope not though. Not everyone uses the service when they have only bought a couple of items. Myself and partner have property in deepest Kalamar Bay and when stocking up on weekly groceries etc we find this a very helpful service when loaded down with upto 6,7,8 bags. Whilst we do not expect to get a free service from the supermarkets it is always nice to be offered.

We would often walk down to the taxi rank with shopping and take a taxi anyway if the delivery service was being used by someone else.

I think you may well find it counter productive to alienate the people you aim to provide a service for.

Regards

 

Hi

I understand what you mean but I really wish everybody thinks and behaves in the same way you do. Because I saw it with my own eyes they just bought a 5 litres water and a bread and took the free service. And if 60 percent of the customers does this then what are we going to earn??
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Kalkan Taxi on August 28, 2007, 06:33:11 PM
Lantana thank you for your post....
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Johnjen on August 28, 2007, 07:49:09 PM
Hi Emre

     Think you have just scored an own goal my friend.If the beach parks will only pay a set amount for Taxi transfers,this tells me that they know what the rate should be & will not pay more.Many visitors to Kalkan will also take their own actions.Hire cars or walk.The problem to me is obvious.There are far too many taxis for the number of visitors.You would have to double the number of visitors to keep all those taxis busy & you won''t do that by making it more expensive for people.The same applies to restaurants,again far too many for the number of visitors.Its a publicity campaign that you need most.   
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: felicity on August 28, 2007, 09:24:07 PM
I may be being naive here so apologies - but it strikes me that the way to fill the taxis is the halve the fares - not double them!!  Pricing people out of the market just won''t work - no market economics there!!  If you make it cheaper then people won''t mind using them and will start using them again but the more the price goes up the more people just won''t use them.  Even my turkish friends are jibbing and complaining at these fares - the other week, my turkish friend and I took a taxi from the green school up the main road - nearly but NOT as far as the Bezirgan turning and it was 9 lira - she nearly fell over - it took about 3 mins to drive and must be all of 1 mile....needless to say we walked back (admittedly downhill).  If the taxi fares are halved then I''m convinced that people will use them again and even for short journeys and that will be good for the taxis, good for business, good for kalkan - ie: nobody needing to take hire cars into the congested village centre etc etc.  then the supermarkets will be able to reinstate their very useful shuttle service (which I for one - ONLY use when I have bagfuls of shopping, EFES, wine, water etc etc - and NEVER for 1 big bottle of water and some bread!).  There will be no need for this gang type intimidation giving kalkan tourism and bad name and hordes of taxis outside supermarkets accosting people as they come out. 

In defence - I do appreciate that they need to earn a living - but there are simply too many of them now chasing too few customers - like the restaurants - but unlike restaurants who even if they halve their prices will get SOME more trade, Im sure - but you can still only 1 meal at a time - but you can nip up and down to town countless times in a taxi...(says she who never uses them - but my good ole pins!!  :P)  I''m glad that the beach clubs are paying the taxi drivers - coz at least they are still getting some trade - and if this carries on like this - maybe the supermarkets can ditch their vans and pay the taxis too...??  Because that is such a useful service....
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: holidayfever on August 28, 2007, 10:26:50 PM
But it is petrol that is so expensive not LPG so why not all use cars that run on this ,as my Turkish friends do then you wouldnt have to charge sooooooooooooooo much and I guess most taxi drivers do really. So maybe the bechclubs know that also, and at least this is a regular trade they are giving you. Guess it is true there are just too many taxi''s doing very short distances around the town.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Kalkan Taxi on August 28, 2007, 11:18:53 PM
Hi Emre

     Think you have just scored an own goal my friend.If the beach parks will only pay a set amount for Taxi transfers,this tells me that they know what the rate should be & will not pay more.Many visitors to Kalkan will also take their own actions.Hire cars or walk.The problem to me is obvious.There are far too many taxis for the number of visitors.You would have to double the number of visitors to keep all those taxis busy & you won''''t do that by making it more expensive for people.The same applies to restaurants,again far too many for the number of visitors.Its a publicity campaign that you need most.   
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You still dont want to understand us. There is nothing that we can do with the taxi fares. We dont cost it to you. The men that we belong to obey their costs. Dont we want to get all customers back? Of course we do but we cant do anything about the fares we just obey what they want us cost it to you. Thats all.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Kalkan Taxi on August 28, 2007, 11:24:22 PM
Before you forget!

I am here for just telling you the reasons of your problems. But if you are going to try to attack me then I wont write anymore. IF you understand this or not THERE IS NOTHING THAT WE CAN DO! People who we belong to they cost the meters and we obey them. Thats all!!!

Regards

Emre
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Alfaman on August 29, 2007, 01:02:00 AM
I''m with Blue Lizard - if taxis are metered then there''s no debate - you pay what the meter rate is or walk next time if you feel it''s too steep.  But varying rates to the same destination - somebody''s trying it on - and doing no-one a favour in the long term. (Has anyone noticed the band wagon effect in Kalkan - hoteliers, restauranteurs building villas,apartments, then sell the villas/apartments, then charge the purchaser for letting/maintenance?)  Keep it simple - just book what you need this particular year!
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: holidayfever on August 29, 2007, 09:01:57 AM
Please dont take it personally Kalkan Taxi we are grateful for your input, very brave of you. But at least you know what people think.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: felicity on August 29, 2007, 09:14:06 AM
Merhaba Emre/Kalkan taxi

Thanks for your explanation and sorry if it appears that you are coming in for some criticism.  As you can see there are some very strong feelings on both sides here.  As you say that you are not able to control the taxi prices - it is the cop-operative who sets them or some local government official - Im not sure what...  Would it be possible for you and all your fellow taxi drivers to get together and go to them and demand that prices are reduced due to the backlash from the tourists, locals both turkish and english who are simply voting with their feet and refusing to use taxis?  In the same way that you all banded together to stop the supermarket service - could you also band together to reduce the prices and get your trade back??

Cheers and thanks for coming on the forum!
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: bankieken on August 29, 2007, 09:25:35 AM
If a large number of the taxi drivers are simply employed to drive the cars then I can understand the frustration that some may feel as there is very little they can do to alter the pricing structure that is now in place. 

Having spoken to a couple of the taxi drivers in August none of them seemed to be particularly quiet so perhaps trade isn''t down.  The impact will be felt next year when visitors who have had to stump up decide not to return.

Over the last 5-10 years Kalkan has seen a big increase in visitor numbers and a huge amount of new development.  The local business people have grown used to year on year increases in income and may think that it will continue in the future. Who is saying it won''t?

The taxi drivers are not unique in this regard - look at the oversupply of villas and apartments - some have been on the market for 3 years and they still keep pushing up the prices.

Market forces will dictate the prices for the taxi''s and if they can charge the current prices and make a good living they will not reduce the costs.
If we don''t like it - make other arrangements.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: bluefudge11 on August 29, 2007, 11:31:23 AM
Firstly - Emre  thank you for taking part in this debate and it is great to get the views of the taxi drivers. None of the comments below (or on any of the posts) should be taken personally.

I have some questions to help me be better informed.

Does the fare increase after midnight(or later)? and if so by how much?

Why do you think the fares vary for the same journey?

Do you think the Taxi drivers would allow the supermarket to offer free service if customers spend say 100ytl (as suggested)?

If the prices are fixed by Government - do these vary depending on the area of Turkey?

I stayed at the Samira Deluxe three weeks ago and the shuttle service was stopped / affected - can you explain why - the reason we were given was because of a bylaw. (i was not staying at a nearby villa but at the hotel).

We had a great day out with a taxi driver for an agreed fixed price (not metered) - Very reasonable and he spent all day with us. A very nice man too! More of this please!

Also
Felicity - I agree with your opinions , If prices were reduced (and i hadn''t been abused) I would have used Taxis many more times instead I either walked or timed visits to catch the shuttle bus.
The intimidating approach will only drive people to alternatives  - People have a choice and will vote with there feet (or hire car)resort).
 
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: alantj on August 29, 2007, 05:03:38 PM
After all this debate, I don''t feel any the wiser as to why a Taxi in Turkey should cost as much as in London; apart of course from the fact that they have been able to establish a monopoly that has been able to both reduce competition and raise prices.  Although it was good to have the taxi drivers viewpoint, for me their comments just confirmed this, especially their complete lack of understanding that people should use a taxi because they want to not because alternatives have been removed.

As, despite all the fuss, there has been no sign of any rethink, I think we will all just have to live with the rises.  Fortunately for us the rises are more of an irritation than a real problem. Even after the Effes we can manage  the midnight walk home (its only 10mins, saves £8 and helps fund/offset the holiday overeating) and fortunately I don''t think our bookings will suffer. As we have a large villa we tend to be oversubscribed for the school holidays and get almost nothing outside of that period, so even if some people decide not to book hopefully it shouldn''t make much difference overall. 

However, I am sure it will have some effect on Kalkan (every guest has mentioned it at the end of their holiday and our on-line reviews, from otherwise happy guests, now contain a warning about having to budget for expensive taxis). Some people won''t come and others will book a hire car direct from the airport, which probably means less money spent in Kalkan''s bars, restaurants and of course taxis. 

Regards

Alan



As an aside, Lantana''s justification about living costs being only a quarter less than the UK, sounded unlikely and got me Googling. The figure quoted was from an annual survey of costs for holidaymakers. It includes English newspapers, beers, wine, three course meals and a 5 mile taxi ride (it was never intended to provide an indication of living costs for residents of a country).

However, the annual surveys were interesting, showing just how fast holiday costs in Turkey are rising. In 2004 Turkey was far cheaper than anywhere in westen Europe; but by 2006 it had passed a number of EU countries (and as taxi rides account for for a fair chunk of the index the doubling in price will push up the 2007 figures a lot further). Incredibly it states the price of a 3 course meal in Turkey doubled between 2004 and 2006 from £7.50 to £15.00 and is now more expensive than Majorca, Spain, Portugal and Greece - Is this really true, (we have only been on holiday in Turkey for the last 5 years) possibly a new thread for views on this?

Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Blue Lizard on August 29, 2007, 05:16:41 PM
we have taken our last Kalkan taxi,after spending out on a conservative estimate £120+ during our summer break(14 nights and some nights & days we didn''t go to the village!!).we have decide to rent nearer the village next year....mrs lizard is back in kalkan in oct and will be looking for rental details ..we would rather spend our money on our break how we like  >:()
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Cosetta on August 29, 2007, 05:43:57 PM
The four times we let guests and family stay in our villa in our absence, we told them all they had to hire a car and they did ... and enjoyed having it.  We are exactly 1km from center town, walkable down, hard job to walk up at night.  I don''t think you who rent will have a problem if you tell your renters the options upfront.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Cosetta on August 29, 2007, 05:54:13 PM
Alan, your point that Turkey has become very expensive is true, Turks will all agree with you.  As regards comparisons with Spain, we spend the winter on the Costa del Sol in southern Spain, I can tell you that you eat better here in Kalkan for much less.  You do not get here the same variety of international foods, but the cheapest we have ever paid for a meal on the beach near Marbella -- basically paella, wine and salad -- was 60 euros for 2 people.  The only cheaper place was lunch in a tiny worker cafe.  Food okay but you wouldn''t eat it everyday.

And I can tell you that you can buy 1 kilo of beef fillet in Kalkan for YTL 31.5, in the Marbella area you will pay approximately 54 euros for that same kilo!!!  If you have transport, you can eat a full meal in Islamlar for YTL 15-20 /pp!  And if you go to inland villages, you will eat for 3-4 YTL.  In Fethiye you can also eat more cheaply than in Kalkan.  But Kalkan has something that many of those other places don''t, so we pay a bit of a premium.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Kalkan Taxi on August 30, 2007, 06:44:47 AM
Firstly - Emre  thank you for taking part in this debate and it is great to get the views of the taxi drivers. None of the comments below (or on any of the posts) should be taken personally.

I have some questions to help me be better informed.

Does the fare increase after midnight(or later)? and if so by how much?

Why do you think the fares vary for the same journey?

Do you think the Taxi drivers would allow the supermarket to offer free service if customers spend say 100ytl (as suggested)?

If the prices are fixed by Government - do these vary depending on the area of Turkey?

I stayed at the Samira Deluxe three weeks ago and the shuttle service was stopped / affected - can you explain why - the reason we were given was because of a bylaw. (i was not staying at a nearby villa but at the hotel).

We had a great day out with a taxi driver for an agreed fixed price (not metered) - Very reasonable and he spent all day with us. A very nice man too! More of this please!

Also
Felicity - I agree with your opinions , If prices were reduced (and i hadn''''t been abused) I would have used Taxis many more times instead I either walked or timed visits to catch the shuttle bus.
The intimidating approach will only drive people to alternatives  - People have a choice and will vote with there feet (or hire car)resort).
 


Hi

Yes taxi fares goes up after midnight. Because we are not sleeping and waiting for you all night and this is same all around turkey. Also you can face with rises all around turkey it is not for only Kalkan so we cant go all taxi drivers to change the taxi fares. I know yes we talked this with the police and make them stop it and Samira Deluxe did everything to their customers if they havent try to get the people from villa to sell them a beer and give them shuttle service then hotel guests wouldnt be effected by this. Sorry for that bluefudge11

Regards

Emre
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: ali & john on August 30, 2007, 12:28:07 PM
We have just returned from our honeymoon in Kalkan and I must say I found the taxi service both reasonable in price and efficient.

Firstly the cost,well we were in a villa up high(far above the petrol station) a nice stroll into town but a struggle up, so it was taxi''s back each evening ,between four of us it was around  £1.50  each! secondly the service we received was excellent when we ordered from a restaurant the cab arrived at the time we ordered it(unlike the UK). as for the taxi''s outside the supermarkets.Great no struggling up or down hills with arms full looking for one,I never felt bullied into taking a cab if i didn''t want one a simple hayir and a smile was all that was needed. I had not been to Turkey for a few years and Kalkan for many, so I was expecting prices to have gone up far and above what they had done. Of course prices have risen that sadly is the nature of the world.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: DRBD on August 30, 2007, 01:59:30 PM
johnboy1 - congratulations and pleased you enjoyed Kalkan.  Sounding promising about the taxi situation, perhaps things may be calming down from the previous reports
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: wendyg on September 28, 2007, 11:29:32 PM
Hi

It cost us 17 Lira from the Harbour to the Paradise apartments which are at the very top of the hill but the driver only charged us 15 Lira

We also got a taxi from the rank to Patara beach. The meter displayed 75 Lira there and 78 Lira back as we got taken back to our apartments but he only charged us 70 Lira and even waited for us for 3 hours at Patara. He could have easily charged us over 150 Lira but he didn''t.


Wendy

Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: kalkanpost on September 29, 2007, 08:30:10 AM
hi folks

As you know Kalkan one of the most expensive place in turkey.
Of course taxi fares expensive also. Everybody missed one point.As you know most of the times taxis are working back to back ( I mean clients get on ,get off often on the streets)in the big towns. But in Kalkan taxis are working mostly one way and return is empty. The fares are covering return also.( Same in the world.If there is no return fares are more....) .In the big towns they don''t have any problem for return,because they have chance to find another customer while they are driving.
According to me it could be one point to explanation why taxi fares to much...?

why dont you write about restaurant bills ? are some of them worth to pay...?
or maintenance of the villas ?
taxes...?
Beach Clubs....
(Have you check your bills at the beach clubs...If you use free service for the beach clubs do you have any additional cost for the SERVICE......?
Did you check it...?

Electric or water bills ....

Why butchers are expensive then the other towns  ?

Why some shops more expensive ?

Probably we have to find right answer of these questions to sort it out problems.

(By the way most of the people who work in summer,don''t have to chance to find regular job in winter.)

These are all my personal opinion......

regards

ilker


Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: bankieken on September 29, 2007, 11:23:19 AM
I therefore assume that if, by sheer coincidence, as I get out of the taxi I have just paid a fare which covers the return journey, one of my neighbours (who happens to be standing outside our apartments) should get in to go back into town they will get a free trip - I don''t think so!!

Stop making excuses for the current situation. The businesses you refer to charge what they think they can get away with. If the tourists find Kalkan too expensive they won''t come back - simple as that.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Cosetta on September 29, 2007, 12:53:14 PM
Hint:  choose a willing driver, negotiate a fixed price, call him every time you need him.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: mouse on September 29, 2007, 03:25:31 PM
Absolutely Cosetta. I would imagine ilker may know a little more than you do bankieken as he is Turkish. It would seem that if the situation were reversed you would be the one getting the ''free trip'' and I would imagine that you certainly wouldn''t moan about that!
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: bankieken on September 29, 2007, 04:12:35 PM
Mouse

I have never advocated that I know more about the situation than ilker.

My point was that the ''return'' fare does not exist and the next time I am in Kalkan I will test the theory - if I get a ''free trip'' on the basis that the person in the taxi before me has in effect paid my fare back into town I will be posting about it on this thread. Perhaps the next time I am walking into town along Kalamar Road I will take up the offer of a ride from one of the taxis touting for business as they return to town from a drop off and on arriving at the taxi rank advise him that I will not be paying.

The fact of the matter is that the seasonal taxi drivers have got their heads in the trough as deep as any other tourist business in Kalkan and disappear off at the end of October the same as the majority of traders in the town.  Good luck to them - I already have negotiated my regular taxi journey fares with a couple of the local drivers who happen to be around for 12 months of the year.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Blue Lizard on September 29, 2007, 07:05:35 PM
we are also lead to believe that the taxi fares have been set by the government(taxi driver posting on here some while back)if that was so shouldn''t each taxi ride to the same destination cost the same?get in 3 different taxis and you will be given 3 different prices...i won''t use taxis anymore >:(
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: kalkanpost on September 30, 2007, 08:16:11 AM
hi

the thing is very important. the taxi fares is not settled by the goverment. Goverment just confirming price list sended by taxi ranks in the town.Mostly towns have different rates in such a small towns, taxis owners are calculating return cost when they fixing their own fares.(If its fair the  office is confirming)Thats what I mean.Certainy you can negotiate about price if you use it often (especially if you use same driver)

Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: kalkanpost on September 30, 2007, 08:28:03 AM
hi again....

also the taxis in kalkan have a very strict rules. If some taxi drivers are charging more than taximeter,or trying to do long distance more than you go , or untidy,dirty etc. ( basicly if there is something wrong) please take a number of the taxi ( not registered number - blue sticker ;right side up of the front glass)
and let Ahmet (chief of the taxi rank ) know about the problem.(00 90 242 844 31 00 ) He will sort it out.

And we will have an article in next issue of kalkanpost.Also you can read latest news and articles about this problem kalkan on www.kalkanpost.com  
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: kalkan tourism transport on September 30, 2007, 03:51:15 PM
EMRE BEYE TEŞEKKÜRLER TAKSİCİ KARDEŞLERİMİZİN PROBLEMLERİNİ BİRAZDA OLSASİZLERE ANLATMAYACALIŞMIS ANLADIGIM KADARIYLA SİZDE BUNU ANLAYIŞLA KARŞILAMIŞSINIZ KİMSE KALKANDA TURİZMİN KÖTÜYE GİTMESİNİ İSTEMEZ CÜNKÜ KİMSE COCUGUNUN EKMEK PARASINI GERİ TEPMEK İSTEMEZ BEN İNANIYORUMKİ KALKANI VE TURİZMI KALKANIN YERLİ HALKI KADAR KİMSE DÜŞÜNMEZ
DÜŞÜNEMEZ BUNU DÜŞÜNENLER YA TURİZMLE UGRASMIYORDUR YADA KALKANI SEVMİYORDUR.
BİZLERİ DAHA İYİ TANIMAK İÇİN LUFEN BİZLERİN ARASINA KATILINIZ

DEĞİŞEN BİR KÜLTÜRE AYAK UYDURMAK O KADARDA KOLAY DEĞİLDİR.

TESEKKÃœRLER

MUSTAFA
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: theinspector on September 30, 2007, 04:20:42 PM
Emre it is very kind of you to give us your opinion.  You say that petrol costs have gone up.  Yes, you are right.  But taxis do not use benzene, they use yurtgaz.  And yurtgaz is YTL 1 / litre.  A car with yurtgaz can go and come from Dalaman airport with YTL 45 or less.

The increase in taxi fares is much more than the increase in the price of yurtgaz.  If there are too many taxis, not every taxi will earn well.  Too many restaurants, too many taxis.  Difficult for everyone to earn well.  Some people will have to find another way to make money.

It is true as you say that shopkeepers, taxi drivers, hotel and restaurant workers and travel agencies work only 6 months.  Many workers do construction in the wintertime to earn extra money, as you know.  Some look after people''''''''s villas or their gardens.  Some go home to their villages.  We wish you could work here for 12 months of every year, but it is not possible for so many workers to do that.

Some tourists have already decided not to come to Kalkan next year.  They say they will go to Kas or somewhere else.  The taxi problem is not going to help Kalkan have more visitors.  It is not going to give you more business because people will start to walk, or hire a car or a motorbike. 

I hope you can find a good solution and a better way for everyone.



Yes you are right some of the taxis work with Yurtgaz but it is not so cheap as you think. Coz my old taxi was working with yurtgaz but they cost us 0.20 lira per km and dalaman is 150 km one way and if you calculate it  300 x 0,20= 60 liras there and back. But if we talk about the new bigger ones they work with diesel and it costs us 45 or less thats true but thinkj about that we pay 7 lira for tunnel and 7 lira for parking and the remain money is for the work we done. Because you don''''t know this but we go to dalaman sometimes 2 3 times a day and we get tired and who is going to pay it if we cost it 60 liras for dalaman or what are we going to earn then??Can you tell me this? Also you told me that some people says that they are going to go to KaÅŸ but if taxi fares change it changes all around turkey. Then how they are going to run away from increases?? :)
And about the counts of restaurants we can''''t do anything about it. Everyone can do what they want as a job. No body can effect no one do do any job. I think in this way. Hope not be so rude.

Regards

Emre
hello i did know about yurgas i thought all cars were run on benzene is it a deisel type feul?
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: holidayfever on September 30, 2007, 04:34:54 PM
What is the next but one above saying in Turkish ???
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: theinspector on September 30, 2007, 04:45:24 PM
Hello
7YTL for the tunnel??

Has the toll increased since May?

It was (single trip in a taxi) 3YTL.
Hello emre ok  i would like to have a say in this debate we come to kalkan on a regular basis
and i think what you have done regarding the supermarkets is very bad. Around the world this is known as FREE ENTAPRISE not dictate to the supermarkets what they can and cannot do. The supermarkets give this servis because if they did not a lot of people would and still do go into fhetiye and kas to do their shopping. by dolmus or car and as you know 90% of the people in kalkan are villa or appartment owners and therefore do a lot of shopping.
You may also be surprised to hear that i to am  a taxi driver and also have my own company.
So i think i am in a good position to comment :-)) agreed.
Your tarrif.s are nearly as exspensive as back here in the uk.
I think unless somthing is resolved everyone will suffer. As people will not go out so much in the evenings
Then the retaurants and bars will suffer as they already are doing

AND emrie you have not mentioned  how alll the taxi.s stand to make a handsome profit from where they have just built the new BUS STATION a nearly a killomiter up the HILL

Here in the uk we have MANY different taxi firms all compeating for the same work SO we have to change prices accordingley In kalkan it is just ONE company who have the monnopaly

ps hope i did not dron on to much :-)).
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: theinspector on September 30, 2007, 05:11:10 PM
Hello emre
I would just like comment on the way you have taken the work away from the supermarkets this is realy bad parctice. Because the servis car is Known as FREE ENTAPRISE
I to am a TAXI DRVER here in the uk with my own firm You will all  losing money and bussiness if you continue to monnopolise kalkan with your ONE taxi company.
Cut you fares and you WILL makes lots more LIRA.
iwe have been coming to kalkan for a few years now and used taxi.s a lot but since the supermarket blockade i now hire a car do a lot of shopping in kas and fethyia and park my car in town at nite and walk down in the morning to pick it up.
Because as mentiond before to get taxi.two or three times a day for 14 days or maybe a month. can work out to a lot of money. we dont even do that here in the uk let alone kalkan.
mick
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: theinspector on September 30, 2007, 05:17:03 PM
sureley if taxis are metered correctly the same journey by different taxis should be the same price?we were quite a way out to walk in the heat and were charged different prices by different taxis...some differences were unbelievable :o
well said i agree totaly
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: felicity on September 30, 2007, 06:01:59 PM
Can somebody roughly translate the gist of Mustapha''s turkish - I cannot get beyond a few words thanking his fellow Emre for his support - but beyond that - I can only pick out the odd word..?  Hey - any expats out there or those married to turks - can you translate for us feeble brits with only their smattering of turkish...... :o

Cheers!
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: HEATH on October 02, 2007, 08:30:22 PM
         we were in Kalkan in July,there was always a queue of taxis at any given time i seem
to think this the problem too many taxis for the number of custemers.We are back at the
end of October and are hiring a car this time after toting up what we paid for taxis in July.
                                         Heath.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: jen on October 02, 2007, 08:52:53 PM
Hi Felicity, I asked a Turkish friend to translate the text written by Kalkan Tourism Transport and they kindly translated it as;

"Thanks to Emre Bey. He has tried to explain to you, at least a little bit, the problems faced by our brothers the taxi-drivers. As far as I understand you have been sympathetic to this. No one wants tourism in Kalkan to struggle, because no one wants these kids to not have money for bread. I believe that no one thinks, or can think, more about Kalkan and tourism than Kalkan''s own people. Anyone who thinks differently either doesn''t work in tourism or doesn''t love Kalkan.
In order to know us better please join us.

It is not easy to adapt to a different culture. "

I have no idea if the translation is right or not myself though!!! ??? ;D
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Cosetta on October 02, 2007, 10:11:37 PM
Our Turkish neighbor also today translated Mustapha''s message exactly the same way as you have written. 
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Kalkan Taxi on October 07, 2007, 04:29:43 PM
Hi to everyone

Sorry for being away from the debate because I just came back to university and had to do my things to get ready for my last year in university. O0 Whatever, I just want to say that I know how you all feel aobut taxi fares. But as kalkanpost says we have really so many spendings. Also some of our friends told that some cars are really bad. Yes thats also true but I just want to ask you something. Have you ever feeled how it feels to drive all those uncomfortable cars during all day under that hot weather. Last year I had also one of that old cars and me and my father cant stand that car. So we changed it. And now please tell me that if we really earn eonugh money from taxi then why does our taxi rank still have those old cars?And the ones who bought new bigger ones. Do u know their paying conditions? They get money from bank and have to pay it every month for 3 years. And you all know how the roads are in Kalkan. Do u think that after those 3 years those cars will be still new? And think about this they have to pay nearly 700 new turkish liras to bank every month and they have to get stuffs to their house and clothes to themselves and so many things. Dont they have to eat out at nights?Or go to a club or bar to have a efes? How come they will do all these? You come to holiday and get not happy with the fares and most of these drivers dont go holiday? Because they have to live with the money they earned during season in the winter. Do u think that there will be still money to have holiday? And as mr ilker said if you have any problem get the number of cars which are on the doors of the cars and come to the taxi rank and tell us your problems.We will sort it out be sure about that.And as cosetta said I also do my customers the same way. We get agreed with my customers on a fixed price and I cost them that way same before or after 12 pm. And one more adding;
this job is not so important for me of course it is but my father is a retired NCO and he gets salary from there and also as I said  I am in my last year in university and studying construction technician as most of you know. So next year hopefully I will work in this catogery. And if I have enough money or could find a partner to set up an new travel agency. For these I just finished my web site with its new face and trying to do all my best to to these 2 jobs for next summer.

I hope all these informations were helpful. And if you have still have questions please let me know. And about the things Mustafa said. Jen was right completely about Mustafa''s saying.

Regards

Emre GÖKTEPE
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: felicity on October 07, 2007, 07:33:57 PM
Hi Emre

Thank you for taking the time to reply and I really do hear what you are saying and I really do feel sorry for your plight - and I would not like to be a taxi driver in Kalkan that''s for sure!!  Having said that - many of us Brits are simply not made of money and those regulars to Kalkan (and even those newbies) are simply fed up with the high prices being charged that we are voting with our feet and choosing not to spend our hard earned cash on taxis but using our feet instead.  As you might have noticed from some other more recent threads on this forum - some people are walking a considerable way along the Kalamar road and uphill to avoid paying the taxi fares - which in isolation are not that expensive - but when you do it twice a day for 2 weeks and maybe more if you are lucky enough to come to kalkan more than once a year - this can mount up to several hundred pounds - which might make the difference between coming to Kalkan - or not, eating out every night or not, going on trips or not and compared to the other costs of other activities for simply transport - people are quite rightly saying - there has to be another way..!!  So unfortunately - the taxi drivers are actually going to be the losers amongst all of this....

Fortunately - I am a bystander in this as we are lucky enough not to need to use taxis and I think more and more people are going to question the proximity of where they are staying to town, or hire a car or simply take the plunge and walk....  There will always be a demand for taxis but at the comparative prices that they are compared to other things in Turkey AND to taxi prices in the UK - the demand will be less and therefore less business for the taxi drivers.  The only way that I can see out of this mess is to halve the taxi prices and try to recoup the lost business which I feel sure that will happen - only then will people increasingly use the taxis if they feel that they can spare the odd 5 lira instead of walking - but until that time, I''m afraid that it will be you - the taxi drivers that will be the losers.....

Sorry - but that is market economics for you, Emre, and I know it is harsh but life is harsh - and I reiterate that I do really feel for you and your fellow drivers....
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: theinspector on October 07, 2007, 09:34:20 PM
emre hello I am a taxi driver here in the uk and i can understand your plight. But i realy dont agree with the way all you taxi drivers have taken away the supermarkets right to offer its customers transport home with thier shopping they do not charge a fare so WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM.

I also think that you should make you fares  a little cheaper that way you will make your monies back again. But knowing the turks  you have got more chance of seeing  pink snow

your fares are as exspensive as they are here in the uk
cheers mike
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Blue Lizard on October 08, 2007, 09:32:46 AM
Emre ..thank you for taking time to post your valued points on the taxi problem...you say taxi drivers charge so much because they have to to live on in winter what they earn in summer...i have to work all year round as does my partner,my work involves 12to 14 hour shifts in the dock area in portsmouth...i do 104 hours before i get 2 days off,i am out in all weathers ,i work all the bank holidays including christmas,my partner is manageresss of a perfume shop and also works long hours often with out a day off if staff are ill or on holiday....it''s only because of this we can afford holidays,i object to the taxi drivers dictating that i can''t have a lift home with my shopping or a hotel can''t let me use it''s courtesy bus having enjoyed a meal/drink there..i will not use taxis anymore ,my hard earned money will be spent how i wish,i will in future only stay near the village and will walk when i have to...this year i was charged several different prices ranging from double last years (which is incredible inflation)to the downright ridiculous three times last year(well before midnight)needless to say i didn''t tip either...i was also charged on a taxi meter while the driver went out of his way and mine to pick up his girlfriend!!i estimate to have spent over £120 pounds during 2 weeks (conservative estimate)my other half also spent on taxis as well though not as much as me as we were often together!!as kalkan expands will we see a dolmus service going around kalkan? i think i know the answer to that!!!..NO!!..anyway Emre it is obviously something people will not agree on ,thank you again for your time,what i spent on taxis will now be spent in bars and restaurants so will still be in Kalkan..take care... ;)
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Kalkan Taxi on October 08, 2007, 07:39:27 PM
Firstly we cant compare the jobs the ones in the turkey and UK. For example thinspector now I think you all will understand I tried to mean in my lasp post. You are taxi driver in UK and can come to holiday easily to Kalkan. Because you earn that much. I am not talking about myself coz everyyear I go to holidays. But most of the taxi drivers cant go holiday even they cant dream a holiday :) Now you see he economical difference between UK and Turkey.

Regards

P.S. : blue lizard you can be my guest at bars or restaurants I can pay for you :) the problems all we talk about during all this time donest include me and my dad. I was being here just for answering your questions. Maybe some times I should did some mistakes but forgive me for all those.

Emre GÖKTEPE
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: bankieken on October 08, 2007, 11:34:32 PM
I think its clear from the most recent posts by the various Kalkan taxi drivers that they honestly believe that they are doing nothing wrong and their actions will  improve the level of income they can achieve.  Only time will tell if they are correct. 

In the meantime I am sure that many tourists will continue to use them (some have little choice due to the location of their accommodation), some will seek accommodation closer to the centre and others will hire cars.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Kim on October 08, 2007, 11:56:28 PM
Hi Emre,

I just can''t get my head around this sudden price increase.  If you are saying that the taxi fares are heavily inflated because of the winter ''low season'' and therefore need to stock up for the lean months, then how have the boats / gulets not done the same?  How can they offer a full day out with lunch, crew, boat overheads, cleaning etc... for under £12 per 7 hour day!  Compare this with a 5 minute taxi fare of 10L?  What happens to the boats in the winter?  They do not have any business at all, yet the taxis still do as there are more people spending winters in Kalkan.  Actually the boat owners have the right attitude, that of attracting customers by offering competitive prices when things are quiet .  It works and also has the positive effect of bringing people back time and time again because it is attracting repeat business. 

Our last taxi driver dropped us off, showed 8.2L on his meter, we gave him 10L with the view of leaving him a reluctant 9L, however in the blink of an eye, he took the note, slammed the door shut and drove off at a rapid rate of knots!  Rip off big time and that is why we won''t support the taxis any more.  Someone in that company / co-operative is making a real bad business judgement and though you and your father mean well Emre, I don''t think the men in charge are on your same wave length.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Mercimek on October 09, 2007, 05:49:55 PM
Just wanted to post a positive for the taxi drivers- one of the drivers stopped this morning and offered me a free lift to the harbour, second time this has happened recently (different drivers) - thank you Bayram and Ali.
Also just a thought- does anyone know anywhere else that supermarkets would give you and your shopping a lift home? I don''t and have lived in other areas in Turkey and it never happened there, nor did they do deliveries. I think we were spoilt, and maybe some took advantage of the service, I have mentioned to a few newcomers that the supermarkets will deliver just your shopping and they think that is a great service.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Blue Lizard on October 10, 2007, 10:02:53 AM
would the taxi men give a big hairy man a free lift.....doubtfull!! ;)
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Kim on October 10, 2007, 06:37:42 PM
We too can get this free service in England by Tesco / Sainsbury''s / M&S etc.....and they have a lot further to go, so it''s not that great a service and if I am on holiday, I don''t want to hang around waiting for my shopping to arrive in Turkish time!  I''d rather be with my shopping and get home at the same time.  Blue Lizard, I don''t even think the taxis would offer me a freebie and i think i''m past my sell by date, so don''t hang around too much!!!!  PS  The boats don''t get any passing traffic do they?  Once they are sea bourne that''s it, no return journey for them!

I live close to 2 cities and my taxi on a girls night out with 3 pick-ups only costs £7 and £8 after 11pm for a round trip of 14 miles.  Kalkan is a much more expensive journey and since we can walk....we will!
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Mercimek on October 11, 2007, 06:19:16 AM
Really Kim, whereabouts do these shops deliver customer and shopping to their home? I have never heard of such a service :o
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Buster on October 11, 2007, 04:33:43 PM
Really Kim, whereabouts do these shops deliver customer and shopping to their home? I have never heard of such a service :o

Hi Mercimek

Kim is quite right in what she is saying. In London we have free delivery from all of the major supermarkets and the distance the delivery vehicles travel is in most cases equal to or greater than the journeys made in Kalkan.

But please any Kalkan Taxi Driver reading this post and the many other posts on this subject please answer this question for me:-

Why does Kalkan not have a local Dolmus bus service which takes a route around the various outlying areas to collect and deposit guests back to pre-arranged stops which are within a short walking distance of their hotel or villa?

The Dolmus system of transport in Turkey is both cost effective and efficient compared with taxis that waste fuel making similar journeys throughout the day carrying in most cases only 2 people.

Why not carry 10 or 12 people who want to go in the same general direction, with the obvious saving in fuel and the reduction in extra pollution caused by so many extra car journeys required by using a taxi.

Kalkan is hilly but its the fact that the cobbled streets meander down hill toward the sea that give it its unique charm and wonderful views of the sea,  I believe it’s those views coupled with Turkish hospitality that attract so many visitors back each year.

In the heat of a Kalkan summer it is just not possible for British people like me used to lower temperatures in the UK to walk to the many hotels and villas that have been built and are being built up higher in Kalkan and built to take advantage of the spectacular views.

This restricts the choice of hotels and villas that people are prepared to book to those that are near the old town as the weekly cost of using taxis as we have read in other posts can amount to £ 120.00 plus per couple.

Kalkan competes for tourists not just with other Turkish resorts but with those in Spain, Greece, France and Italy if it is to attract it’s fair share that added £ 120.00 could be the reason people don’t book or return as they have in the past to Kalkan.

I believe that if the Turkish people living in Kalkan and the local villages around are to derive the maximum benefit that the extra income larger numbers of tourists and people coming back 3 – 4 times can bring then an integrated transport system around Kalkan will be very important in helping to attract the extra tourist required to make the hotels, restaurants and the number of new villa’s needing to be sold viable.


Can any Kalkan taxi driver tell me why I am wrong?                 Best Regards:  Buster
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Blue Lizard on October 11, 2007, 04:57:00 PM
south coast ...our local sainsburys offers a free bus shuttle and provides a round robin trip....buster i have often asked why kalkan doesn''t have a dolmus service to various points in the extremities of the village..eg kalamar,akbel road,kisla to name a few...but i think we know the reason? ;)   best wishes lizard
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: holidayfever on October 11, 2007, 06:25:51 PM
Yep its time the dolmus arrived, much more cost effective and better for the enviroment, I have been to lots of places in Turkey and Kalkan is the only one I have been too that doesnt have one, but as you say think we know why.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: kal1 on October 12, 2007, 02:26:35 PM
I agree with Kim & Buster and we have tesco & Sainsburys free shuttle bus in our area too.
I have heard the reason we dont have a dolmus is because the taxi drivers wont allow it, but this is just talk so perhaps someone in the know can tell us.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Kalkan Taxi on October 16, 2007, 09:09:19 PM
Ok Everybody

I tried to tell all conditions we have and you still don''t want to understand anything. This is my last post about this debate.

I hope all you have agreed about everything.And one more think I don''t earn my all money from taxi so It is not important for me if you use or not. And holidayfever and blue lizard I don''t want to be rude and please do not misunderstand me you say that you know the reason then why don''t you tell this to our municipality instead of writing here. I saw that you all know all problems in Kalkan better than me then please you find some solutions for these and tell them to our muicipality.

These are all I can say for you about this debate

Regards

Emre GOkTEPE
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: holidayfever on October 16, 2007, 09:58:32 PM
Oh blue Lizard you are getting me in trouble lol :-[ but all I was saying is think dolmus should run up to the kalamar bay area, and from the village to the top of town, but I can only guess they dont because the taxis say no, forgive me if I am wrong, they do in other towns, and if you are a big family staying in a villa it would make more sense than catching 2 taxis to the same place ,simple as.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Blue Lizard on October 16, 2007, 10:24:27 PM
oh aren''t i a naughty lizard geting you in trouble ::)....i would put my points to the municipality if they had some one on here but they don''t..and i''m sure my point of view would be of about as much interest to them and about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike...but thats what it is a point of view,which i am perfectly entitled to...it won''t change anything ..but i will vote with my feet!! ;)
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Kim on October 16, 2007, 10:43:11 PM
Well Emre, if you have other income and you don''t care whether we use the taxis or not, then your opinion here is unimpressive.  I was under the impression it was a family businesss and you were representing that and that the main complaint of taxi drivers was that you were unable to earn during the winter months?  How are you handling that?

Blue Lizard and others on this forum are  potential customers who are trying to understand a huge price increase and get an explanation as to the resons why. We also have our friends and family to consider when recommending Kalkan.  Believe you me, if this happened in the UK, it would receive similar hostility and would demand similar answers.

It will be interesting to see what happens next year.

Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: felicity on October 17, 2007, 08:31:48 AM
I think that what will happen next year will be that, assuming the taxi drivers insist on charging these ridiculous prices and holding the supermarkets free delivery service and the potential for a dolmus service to ransom - is that yet again they will be complaining about lack of custom and people will vote with their feet (as they are doing already) and simply walk despite the hills or Kalkan regulars will be very picky and choosy about where they stay so that they don''t have to use taxis. 

So the end result is - nothing achieved for anybody - unhappy taxi drivers, unhappy visitors and more general unpleasantness.  At least halve the taxi fares and they might stand half  a chance of recouping their customers and lost income and might just get their trade back.....  As Kim says - the same would happen in England if taxis monopolised the situation and charged ridiculous prices - people just voting with their feet and refusing to part with hard earned cash for a 2 minute ride home!!
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Shirley Burley on October 17, 2007, 10:37:16 AM
Wouldn''t it be nice if forum members were as passionate about sponsoring Kalkan''s children, or inquiring as to the success of the recent Bring & Buy sale, as they were about trying to dictate to the taxi drivers what they are or aren''t allowed to charge.

Kalkan business people are within their rights to charge whatever they like - no one is going to the more expensive restaurants and saying ''your prices are too high, you must halve them or no one will eat here again'', so why the taxis?!  Just because you contribute to a Kalkan Forum it does not give you the right to dictate to the people of Kalkan how they should run their businesses and what they should charge you.

This is a chat forum not a hotline to the Kalkan mayor.  Leave the taxi drivers alone - if you don''t want to pay the price then, as has been said before, walk.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: holidayfever on October 17, 2007, 05:13:31 PM
Yes Shirley burley, I did infact donate to the animals of Kalkan when I was out in Kalkan, I also sometimes used the Taxis, however that is not the point i was not dictating  just expressing a valid point of view, I save up very hard ever year to go on holiday, I enjoyed the wonderful food in Kalkan and although it isnt cheap I still found the service and the food good value for money, however if they increased this by even 20% I could not then afford to eat every night on holiday, and I would have to make a choice Trip, Night out ,Taxi, it is that simple ,and for me the eaiest one to give up is the taxi,  so if I returned to Kalkan I would make really sure where I stayed was in walking distance, and I would rather give my taxi fare saved to the animals or children, but I dont feel guilty about not giving to every worthy course I do charity work in England for people with HIV/AIDS ,RSPCA AND CANCER CHARITIES, again I work hard for the money I earn and therre is only so much I can give away to Charity or waste on Taxis, so you are right I will Walk.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: felicity on October 17, 2007, 05:58:21 PM
Well said Holidayfever - I was just about to write the same thing - you took the words right out of my mouth.  Nobody is dictating who should charge what or how people should run their businesses - simply giving a valid point of view on an open chat forum on things that please and displease them.

As regards one charity over another - as you say - if we all gave to every worthwhile cause - we would not be able afford to visit kalkan LOL!  I too would love to donate to animals, children etc etc etc but people''s pockets are not endless bottomless pits.  Now that I know that there is such a worthy cause as the children in Kalkan - I will review the current charity support that I give over the year and maybe drop one in favour of another - but I do not think that anybody should assume that because we write about the taxis we are either trying to dictate rates and because we havent written regarding the Kalkan children that we are so unfeeling that we don''t care about such things.... Life is all about choice and sacrifices - this year it will be meals over taxis for some - next year who knows!!  ;D
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Blue Lizard on October 17, 2007, 05:59:00 PM
very little info has been given on the sponsoring thread although i have posted on there...as for dictating isn''t that what the taxi drivers did to the courtesy bus driver (lovely man for who nothing is too much trouble)who was left cut and bleeding for doing his job?this man also only has a short time to earn his money,when the hotel closes..no bus...is it only taxi drivers that are allowed to earn a living?unlike the taxi drivers he doesn''t have a vehicle to earn a living.... i won''t post on this subject anymore as everyone has there right to an opinion and i have made mine..what next? restaurant owners  standing outside other restaurants demanding they stop serving food? :-X
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Enjoy Kalkan on October 17, 2007, 06:25:30 PM
I know passions run high in this thread but please could I ask everyone just to count to ten before posting to ensure other members opinions are respected even if not agreed with.

Thanks

Jon  :)
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: kalkanfan on October 17, 2007, 06:54:25 PM
Felicity - does "not trying to dictate rates" include your "suggestion" that they should halve their fares?
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Buster on October 17, 2007, 06:59:29 PM
Wouldn''t it be nice if forum members were as passionate about sponsoring Kalkan''''s children, or inquiring as to the success of the recent Bring & Buy sale, as they were about trying to dictate to the taxi drivers what they are or aren''t allowed to charge.

Kalkan business people are within their rights to charge whatever they like - no one is going to the more expensive restaurants and saying ''''your prices are too high, you must halve them or no one will eat here again'''', so why the taxis?!  Just because you contribute to a Kalkan Forum it does not give you the right to dictate to the people of Kalkan how they should run their businesses and what they should charge you.

This is a chat forum not a hotline to the Kalkan mayor.  Leave the taxi drivers alone - if you don''t want to pay the price then, as has been said before, walk.

It pains me to have to reply to posts like this because I believe all this negative talk about taxis affects the tourist industry I am so desperate to promote.

Argumentative and negative posts can have a detrimental affect on the Kalkan people''s livelihoods and people should think hard and long before posting comments that make topics like this go round and round in ever decreasing circles.

I will PM you Shirley because your argument does not stack up. and I don''t want to post on this topic anymore.

Regards   Buster.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Kim on October 17, 2007, 07:30:18 PM
Yep, I agree Buster.  I actually posted a topic earlier in response to Shirley Burley, but it has not been posted.  At the time i overlapped with Jon''s post, so don''t know what has happened to it?  To re-iterate, I will happily continue to donate to lthose local charities in Kalkan who know me, but wonder if the taxi cartel''s have donated anything to their local charities, from their ''tourist'' profits made from price hikes?  I can choose any restaurant I like out of 100+ in Kalkan and therefore can decide if I want Pide and salad one night or am prepared to pay for a more expensive meal with a wonderful view and great service. 

We spend over 40 nights a year in Kalkan because we are both still working, but still are prepared to eat out every night as we feel that it helps the Kalkan economy and provides us with the ability to meet local people and be a part of Kalkan life as best we can.  We will happily use Kalkan taxis in the same way, if they realign their prices to the levels that are fair.  I''ll then quite happily donate the money saved, to the Kalkan charities I support.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Shirley Burley on October 17, 2007, 08:39:07 PM
As I have responded to you privately Buster, my ''argument'' was not an argument - more an expression of frustration at a totally pointless and offensive thread.

My frustration was at the continuation of the taxi ''debate'' (although I''m not sure the word ''debate'' entirely describes it - I''m sure poor Emre would agree with me on this!), when there is really no good that can come of it.  The taxi prices will not go down, and continuing to discuss this subject is not going to change that.

My real point was purely that the response to the taxi subject had sparked off 5 pages of responses, and Lantana''s posts re the Bring & Buy and Sponsorship of a Kalkan child hadn''t even attracted a single comment.  I can understand that further information had been promised, but surely a show of interest or beginning of a discussion wouldn''t have hurt - the posting just disappeared underneath a pile of other threads as if no one was remotely interested.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: jenistreet on January 10, 2008, 09:07:44 PM
Hi - Iv just booked a villa in kalkan for the first time and was told i wouldnt need a hire car because i could easily get taxis - shuttle buses etc and also free taxis? from beach clubs ?? - after reading the forum i know i cannot afford the taxis every night. we would need 2 taxis for the 8 of us and on a 14 day holiday that would add too much to our budget. The last time i was in turkey i did get around using dolmus and cheap taxis. I am now looking to rent cars and drink a lot less. I really would have used taxis if they charged less. It is a huge shame that all the good thing im reading about kalkan have been soured by this one bad thing. Im still looking forward to the holiday.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: vicksen on January 10, 2008, 10:34:59 PM
I haven''t up till now made any comments about taxi prices, believing that people are free, if they feel something is too expensive for them, not to buy it, be it a product or a service.

However, I''m beginning to feel that this thread has been blown up out of all proportion, and people are posting comments that are really unfair, giving a totally skewed picture of Kalkan.
Taxis in Kalkan aren''t any more expensive than they are anywhere else in Turkey, be it KaÅŸ, Fethiye or Antalya. A ride of 2.5 km in KaÅŸ, for instance, will cost you 14 YTL in the daytime, more after midnight.

But I wonder if people from the UK have any idea about the costs of keeping a vehicle on the road in Turkey?

In the UK, costs are low - third party insurance is cheap (assuming you''re not a 20 year-old with drunk driving convictions); road tax is cheap, MOTs are cheap. Petrol, whilst not cheap, is still less than Turkey.

Current petrol cost is Turkey is 3YTL a litre, (£1.33). Diesel is 2.70 YTL a litre (£1.20).
Buying a car in Turkey is very expensive - by the time you pay 18% KDV (VAT) and 20% on top of that ÖDV (special luxury tax), then the other taxes, you''re paying nearly as much again to the government as the basic car price was.
Normal 3rd party insurance is 224 YTL for a car, but a taxi is much more expensive, as you might expect, at 554YTL (£246) a year, comprehensive insurance is on top of that, and varies with the price of the car. Assuming a newish car, you could expect another 800YTL, (£355)
There is a visa which costs 110 YTL  (£48); an emissions test which is not expensive, about £8, but you have to drive to Fethiye from Kalkan to have it done.
The vehicle tax is the real killer - 986 YTL (£438) a year for a car the size of a taxi

All of this is to the government.

Add to that the cost of your services, tyres and repairs, and cleaning.

Then add in the many, many and varied assorted fines for infringements of the traffic laws and the revenue laws (and before anybody leaps in and says people should stick to the law, believe me, there are so many ways you can infringe both the traffic laws and the revenue laws all unknowingly that there''s hardly a driver in the land who hasn''t been hit with a fine or a penalty for something!

And finally add in the sheer difficulty, frustration and time involved in negotiating your way through actually getting all the necessary bits of paper, the time spent in endless queues at the Tax Offices, the Police, the Visa station et cetara et cetara.

Not to mention the waiting in the heat at fun places like airports.

So come on folks, don''t be so hard on these chaps.
Try driving a car in this country for a year or so, and then see if you still feel they have an easy life, and their prices are too high!

Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: DRBD on January 11, 2008, 06:55:01 AM
Vicksen

Thank you for that update and appreciate it.  We have no need for the use of a taxi as are very close to what we need and do hire a car.

 However the one time we did feel the need was last year when we had just arrived and went to the supermarket to do our stock up and had a rather intimidating time as the supermarket were going to deliver our large order and the the taxi driver outside made sure they were not.

In the end because of his attitude we walked it all up ourselves with the help of a member of staff from the shop who offered to come with us.  Not a good example of customer care, and after a long 12 day from UK to Kalkan feeling very tired we just did not need it

However have found most of the drivers a little more relaxed in their attitude of late.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: bluefudge11 on January 11, 2008, 10:10:56 AM
Agreed DRBD - it is not only the cost, it is the attitude. During a 2 week stay, I was verbally abused & intimidated. I witnessed roadblocking, shouting and public disorder during courtesy bus disputes. Did I still use Taxis? only when needs must. Did I leave a tip?  Yes, never eat yellow snow! (no i didn''t actually say that)
 I also would dispute that taxi fares are the same throughout Turkey - (maybe they are supposed to be) but doing the same journey a number of times in Kalkan resulted in significant variation, and we certainly seemed to go much further for less when we were in  Fethiye.
On balance we had one Taxi driver that we used for a couple of days out, going off the beaten track and learning a little about the "real" Turkey - He was a great guy, Did he get a tip? Yes of course!

The cost of doing business is no excuse for poor behaviour
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: bankieken on January 11, 2008, 11:29:45 AM
Vicksen - Got to dispute your quoted taxi prices of 14YTL for a 2.5km trip.  We have an apartment 1.1km from the centre.  Before the taxi price hike we paid no more than 6YTL into town.  The price has doubled and increases again after midnight.  There is very little consistency in pricing despite the so called metering regime.

I have no problem with free enterprise and accept the high costs that these guys may have to bear to operate legally.  However the attempt to force tourists to use there services by preventing the supermarkets from running there delivery service or preventing a local dolmus from running isn''t acceptable.

Rarely use the taxis last year and unlikely to be using them this year either. Far better hiring a car (even with the price of petrol) or negotiating a fixed rate with one of the local drivers who appreciates that accepting the old fare rate is better in the long run for repeat business / transfers etc.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: alantj on January 11, 2008, 11:52:11 AM
I think this is an important issue for many people, especially family groups.

Last year after the taxi fare rise, and subsequent banning of the supermarket drop off service and use of hotel shuttles, all of our guests commented on the cost of the taxis. Our villa usually has parties of 6-8 staying, so they faced additional costs of approx £16 per day for just one return trip into kalkan (That''s 2 taxis at 10TL each way). Customer reviews on our website now warn of the cost of even short trips in Kalkan and two of our regular repeat customers have told us, the additional cost was a major factor in their decision not to come back to Kaklan this year.

I would agree that the taxi drivers have a right to set the cost at whatever level they find economic for them providing they do not prevent other services from operating. It is this, as much as the actuall prices, that has annoyed people.

For this year we are offering a package price that includes car hire from Dalaman, so far this has been successful in attracting bookings but seems a bit riduculous to have to do this for a villa 1km from the town centre.       

Regards

Alan

NB Admittedly there is an upside, by getting into the routine of walking both ways we actually saved money and certainly finished the holiday fitter and a few pounds lighter than normal.





Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: vicksen on January 11, 2008, 07:19:41 PM
Bankieken - the Kas taxi price of 14 YTL for 2.5 km daytime was one I paid personally a week ago, so dispute away, that wasn''t hearsay, but fact.

As to supermarkets...
The supermarket deliveries of purchases were legal. No one had a problem with them.
What did cause the problem was that people were getting delivered as well as shopping.
(And am I wrong in remembering that just prior to the problems beginning, I read people on this forum gloating about how they avoided taxi fares simply by buying a few items of shopping, and getting driven home with it...?)

Apart from the rights and wrongs of supermarkets depriving taxi drivers of their livelihood, this was illegal.
The supermarkets were not licensed or insured to carry passengers, and had the vehicles been stopped in routine traffic checks, or worse, had there been an accident, the passengers would not have been insured, and the driver and the supermarket owner would have been in right soapy with the law.

Had that happened, I am in no doubt that there would have been angry posts on here about people operating illegal transport services!

Alantj - your parties of 8 people are actually only paying one pound each for each trip into Kalkan - surely two pounds a day for transport on the cost of somebody''s holiday isn''t a lot? The cost of one bottle of beer?
Or they could of course walk, if as you say it''s one single kilometre?

If there were to be a dolmus, it wouldn''t cost less than that either.  (even in Antalya, which, being a city and busy, has its dolmuses running full most of the time, the cheapest dolmus fare last year for the shortest trip was 2YTL).

The villa owners could of course offer prepaid taxi service tokens included in their villa rental. Or knock 2 pounds per person per day off the cost of renting...

At the end of the day, taxi drivers aren''t well off, and do not make a lot of cash driving taxis. That''s a fact.
Villa owners, by any standards, are wealthy people , owners of at least two homes, who are also making extra money renting out their second home.

And before anyone asks, by the way, I neither own nor have ever owned, a taxi, nor am I related to anyone who does.

But surely anyone can see the inherent unfairness in the demands that taxi drivers should work for little or nothing in order to subsidise villa owners?
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: kalkanfan on January 11, 2008, 09:14:42 PM
Vicksen

I''m with you on this one and the idea of villa owners reducing their daily rental charge is inspired!!  I think it puts them in the same position some have been advocating for the taxi drivers - you reduce your fares and I will use your taxi or put another way you reduce your rental charge and I will rent your villa - brilliant!!
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: bluefudge11 on January 11, 2008, 11:57:10 PM
Yes - Villa owners reducing prices because the Taxi Drivers have doubled their price - Inspired!

What next, Villa owners suppyling free food because the restaurant prices have gone up or having rowing boats in their pools because boat trips have gone up - love it!

Glad I don''t own a Villa  :) 
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: J. on January 12, 2008, 01:41:48 AM
There are no winners in this thread.
Is it another way of making the richer people pay more taxes. Is it justified.
A year ago most people were happy paying the taxi fares now they are not.
What has happened. The fuel fares have not gone up by this amount.
Are all taxi fares in Turkey subject to the same regulations.
WHATS GOING ON!.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: vicksen on January 12, 2008, 08:39:22 AM
J, please read my original post. The costs of car owning have spiralled in Turkey - not just fuel, but ALL the taxes.
This is the government.
They want more money, they put taxes up...and up....and UP.
There''s nothing we can do about it.

Everybody is hit by it, car owners, lorry owners, taxi drivers. It''s not just Kalkan, it''s all of Turkey.

Foreigners not living here obviously don''t see what''s going on, aren''t affected by the other bits, so hit out at the bit that affects them most, which is taxi fares.
But it''s not going to change in any hurry, so I''m afraid you''re going to have to either smile and pay it, grimace and pay it, or walk.

But for any favour, stop demonising a group of people just trying to make a living.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: DRBD on January 12, 2008, 09:24:50 AM
Vicksen and others -

 May I just point out than NOT ALL villa/property owners rent out their properties, we for one do not so are not making any profit out of our house, & no doubt we are not alone, for those of you who are aware of our circumstances it has cost us very dear indeed so we are just enjoying it. So please, don''''t put us all in the same mould.

As for anyones personal /financial/or otherwise situation whether they have two houses or more really has nothing to do with any one else but themselves, so should not be maligned for doing so.

As already stated we are fortunate enough not to have to rely on the taxis service, but I will clarify one thing from our previous post, when we did want our shopping delivered that evening we were not expecting a lift home and infact had already prior to finishing our shop made it clear we would walk  home and await the delivery, the taxi driver in question was not even allowing that.

We may not be living there but some of us are still interested enough to find out what is going on in various ways.

Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Tatilde on January 12, 2008, 10:59:44 AM
Well said DRBD. We do rent out our villa, but only for a few weeks. I like to be in Kalkan too much to rent it out any more. Even with the income, it costs an arm and a leg to have property in Kalkan, what with paying utility bills, gardening, cleaning, pool maintenance and tax on rental income and we don''t make a profit. We''re going to Kalkan on Monday to pay for various things, including the cost of a wall to prevent the recurrence of flood damage we suffered in October. We didn''t buy our property to make money, we just love being in Kalkan.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Kim on January 12, 2008, 01:28:30 PM
Yes Talide, we too bought, not for profit, but because we loved Kalkan, had made friends there over the 11 years we have been visiting and wanted the freedom of coming out as much as we can, so we also don''t rent out our property.  We also bought in 2002 and at that time, there were very few Brits (or other foreign buyers) who had bought properties, so we did''nt have many options if we wanted to rent (now there are stacks!).

Over the years prices have gone up considerably in almost all areas; restaurants, furniture, builders, you name it...we were lucky we bought everything when we did, because we have found even the price of getting curtains made, has gone up x 4 times.  I still have the bill we paid for having everything from beds, through to electrical white goods, to getting tables and other furniture made in Kalkan by local craftsmen.  There were no furniture shops or any home shops around at all.  Comparied to what we have paid recently when we have ordered additional items, prices have gone up a lot.

I guess the more people have bought in Kalkan, the more demand there is and where there is demand businesses will spring up to supply, and often at a premium. 

But then i think that can apply to other purchases as well. 

We just make sure if we are needing to use taxis particularly during very hot spells, we don''t let it spoil our holiday.  We have a choice and sometimes we do like to walk, so we do a bit of both.

To be honest, I would rather pay the taxi fare and be comfortable, than to pay the hugely inflated prices some of the bars and hotels are charging for a Gin and Tonic these days (both Turks and English owners).

I bet if eveyone was to compare what their drinks bill was before Kalkan became popular, they would get a shock! 

Unfortunately, the increase in taxi prices co-incided with a lot of bad attitudes and nasty public displays from the drivers, and that has left a bad taste in a lot of people''s mouths, understandably so.

We still compare the costs of everything we do when we are in Kalkan with other places around the world and are still more than happy with the standards of service and quality generally, so have stopped moaning about it now (because we did when we were there last year!).

Looking forward to our 1st visit of 2008!!

Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: bluefudge11 on January 12, 2008, 04:16:23 PM

Yes us Foreigners who visit Kalkan once a year  can make our own choices but if a group of people "trying to make a living" act like demons then they will be "demonised"
And if it is all above board and the cost of this, that and the other taxes fines etc, are across the board, then why still no answers as to why the Taxi fares vary so much  for the same journey.?
I would defend anyone who is trying to make an honest living (it''s what us  Foreigners do all year so we can visit Kalkan) .But If I went to a bar and was charged differant prices every time for the same drink i, I would question it. If I received a mouthful of abuse from the barman, then I would be writing about that too!  I''m not because they don''t

It is not the cost of Taxis that is the concern to me but  it''s the rip off tactics and the abuse that is not acceptable.


 
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: kalkanfan on January 13, 2008, 09:03:24 AM
Quote

"Even with the income, it costs an arm and a leg to have property in Kalkan, what with paying utility bills, gardening, cleaning, pool maintenance and tax on rental income and we don''t make a profit." 

Funnily enough I don''''t rent out my UK home but find I have these expenses to pay (well, no pool mantenance) - outrageous - why was I not told when I bought the house?  Surely Kalkan taxi drivers don''''t have such expenses?

No one had a gun held to their head and was forced to buy a property in Kalkan.  This was your choice and with that choice goes, as you noted above, a certain ongoing cost.  That''''''''s economics and certainly should not have come as a surprise.

I''m sure the taxi drivers would love to earn enough to struggle to buy a first property in "our" Kalkan let alone a 2nd home!!
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: kalkanfan on January 13, 2008, 09:14:26 AM

Quote

"Even with the income, it costs an arm and a leg to have property in Kalkan, what with paying utility bills, gardening, cleaning, pool maintenance and tax on rental income and we don''''t make a profit." 

Funnily enough I don''''t rent out my UK home but find I have these expenses to pay (well, no pool mantenance) - outrageous - why was I not told when I bought the house?  Surely Kalkan taxi drivers don''''t have such expenses?

No one had a gun held to their head and was forced to buy a property in Kalkan.  This was your choice and with that choice goes, as you noted above, a certain ongoing cost.  That''s economics and certainly should not have come as a surprise.

Im sure the taxi drivers would love to earn enough to struggle to buy a first property in "our" Kalkan let alone a 2nd home!!
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Tatilde on January 13, 2008, 10:04:39 AM
Kalkanfan, I don''t recall saying anything about the prices taxi drivers charge. Of course they have to make a living. Obviously I was quite aware of the costs involved in buying a property in Kalkan. It was my choice as you so rightly said and I''m glad I was in a position to be able to do so.
Title: Re: The Kalkan Taxi Debate
Post by: Enjoy Kalkan on January 13, 2008, 10:58:19 AM
Hi,

I have chosen to lock this topic for a while as I''m sure it could soon get much more heated!
Its interesting how the debate has gone full circle, from "outrageous increases" to "earning a fair living"

Its a situation that will always spark a debate, as taxi prices do in the UK! Taxis or walking, villa owner or visitor, tourist or ex-pat, I think its important to remember we are guests in Turkey and if we do not like something, its our choice if we use that service or not.

Jon.
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