Prices

[Mercimek]

Whilst everyone makes comments on the rising prices in Kalkan (taxis etc) you may be interested to hear that the as well as the hike in the cost of living in the UK the same is being experienced in Turkey.
I think any of us that live in Kalkan will have noticed the increased cost of living in the last year.
The record breaking cost of oil is the main reason. For cost of rice in Turkey has risen 130% in the last three months. Of course rice is a staple food in Turkey and therefore this will have a noticable effect on most households.

This is highlighted in Today''s Zaman http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=139057

Linkback: https://www.enjoykalkan.com/forum/index.php?topic=1368.0

[marking]

Whilst prices have risen there has been no increase in wages for the locals, be careful of this high price rise it is mainly for the tourists/foreigners, don''t forget to haggle be brave, if your a Turk you will pay a lot less, all prices are marked for the tourist and Kalkan tourists pay a lot more than most other parts of Turkey

[Hoca]

Sorry but you are off the mark in some respects. Not all prices are for tourists what comes up off a bar code is what you pay no matter. Don''t be afraid to buy from the vans and motor bikes often these are a lot cheaper, and the veg is a lot fresher. If you come on holiday to Kalkan and compare it to other places then go there instead if you live here and moan about prices then live somewhere else.

[Cosetta]

Confirming what Mercimek said, the real cost of living has risen dramatically ALL OVER Turkey, not just in Kalkan.  Elsewhere as well, and much of it due to the increased cost of oil.

[marking]

I''m afraid there may be some naivety here, it''s well known that people are overcharged in Kalkan. Everything not priced from big companies outside Kalkan, e.g petrol, is overpriced. Most people living here will make their major purchases in Fethye or even Kas, you don''t have to be here long to know you can get it cheaper elsewhere [see section on wills] mind you the taxis are a good price in Kalkan

[Hoca]

It is the same any where if you live in southern England you pay more for petrol than in the North and if you live in a village you pay more at the shop than in a supermarket you are not over charged you pay the going rate for Kalkan

[Cosetta]

As concerns property prices, here is a worthwhile article to read about dual pricing:

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=140578

However, as we now several Turkish sellers/builders, they are not lowering their price in order to capture the Turkish buyer.  They flatly state that the price is X, regardless of who buys the house.  That is certainly true of us as well, the price will not change with the nationality of the buyer.

[marking]

Very interesting artical Cosetta. prices have fallen 30% and does that mean a further 20% in places where foreigners predominantly buy like Fethiye. Houses costing £100,000 to £150,000 are sold for 80,000ytl to 100,000ytl to Turks,yes there are 2 prices it would appear. I wonder if anybody knows how prices are set, who determines the price of a villa for example, is there a central land authority setting prices?

[Cosetta]

Prices are set by the owner of the building.  And not all prices have fallen by 30%.  In many areas prices have not fallen at all.  Just around us are 3 houses for sale at the same price as originally offered and which the owners will not drop very much, preferring to keep them until the market recovers.  IMHO, prices are falling where owners are owing money to banks, or own a lot of less expensive properties and want or need to convert them to cash.

[marking]

I think it is very sensible to wait until the market recovers before selling your property and lucky that the 3 houses around you can also wait as the owner has decided the price he will accept. but for builders who need to sell for a living doesn''t this cause a problem in a falling market? Prices are down right accross Turkey, British villa owners who want to sell are finding it very difficult unless they accept big losses, if you are buying there must be some real bargains out there.

[Hoca]

Prices are set by location and market trends the same as any other country. Villa''s and apartments are expensive in Kalkan but that is due to location and demand, the demand has reduced due to the poor world economy and over development but there are some large companies building here now as land owners decide to sell and not build because as you said they can''t afford to have properties standing. Some of the more prudent ones are building to let (long term) as this is a growing market but large developers will not reduce prices whole sale if you speak to people in the housing industry in Britain quite often they hike prices slightly to create reverse psychology though prices may fall over all some places they keep rising.
Prices will fall but property is a long term investment and rarely do people sell for less than they bought. There are a lot of Turkish,  Russian and Scandinavian people looking to buy here with a lot more money than the Brits but we a a race tend to forget that other nationalities like holidays too. I''m off now haven''t wrote this much since lines in school.

[Mercimek]

Having worked briefly in the Estate Agency market I can say that generally it seems British people prefer to buy a new property than a second hand one, and with the choice of so many new properties this is one of the main reasons that resale can be difficult especially as there are so many new properties to compete with. Of course the B side of this is that with a second hand property it is tried and tested and hopefully any snagging remedied.
Also many people expect to have made some profit on their property which isn''t necessarily the case- as many are now seeing in the UK.
I agree with Hoca on the supply and demand factor- same as everywhere I guess.

[Hoca]

This is true British people like brand new you only have to look at the sales of new cars and the price of one that is 6 months old.

[marking]

What is difficult to understand is why rents are so low here, no more expensive than in antalya or Kas, new apartments are c.400-500ytl per month whilst purchase prices are double sometimes treble what they are in other parts. Holiday letting is abismal and most owners struggle to let at any profit. Rents should reflect the property value, I don''t think there is anywhere where this is so out of kilter than  in Kalkan, if a property costs £1,000,000 in London it''s because you get £4,000 per month rent, whereas a property in Hartlepool costs 80,000 and you get £400 per month. shouldn''t we just admit they ''saw us coming'' and we''ve been a tad overcharged for our properties. There is no shortage of supply and ther are hundreds of resale properties for sale here so hardly a huge demand. English people rushed here to buy on the back of a flourishing property market in England and thought somehow the same rules applied here, but of course they don''t,and just being English doesn''t mean you can change that. Actually there is nothing special about Kalkan in the eyes of the Turks or Germans or French or Americans or any other nationalities for that matter just a few romantic English people who believe they have discovered somewhere special, they may love it and why not, but when it comes to economics and hard cash they''ve certainly paid for it or at least they are now.

[Cosetta]

Being American, we found Kalkan to be very special, at least in the ''''90s but still today to a lesser extent. But I can vouch for the fact that Americans who do come here still find it very special.  And despite the distance, there are several American families owning property here.

There are also several villas that get GBP 1000+ / week rental in summer.  Don''t know what apts will rent for YTL 400-500 but they must be very small and perhaps not well located.

[marking]

Whilst there may be a few bad locations I think they are hard to find in Kalkan, it''s all very beautiful unless someone sticks a 4 storey villa in front of you! wherever you live here you think it''s best, the people in Kisla think it''s best there whilst those in Kalamar think it''s best there, that''s why they chose to live where they do. We all have the choice to live whereabouts we like. 3 lots of 3 aparts finished 2 years ago at the end of the islands hotel road are all let for example, 2 bedrooms all mod cons sale price around £75,000 each currently let at 420ytl each, it''s easy to find a good newish apart here for less than 500ytl. Another couple rent a nice apart on the cati rd. very central with a great view of the islands for 450ytl per month, ask around it''s easy to get that priced accomodation. and as good as anything you might buy, [in fact they are built to be sold often but the builder is unable to] There is an interesting thread on this site with villa owners talking about the summer lets situation, it''s very unadvisable by all accounts. Kalkan is beautiful to all  who live here, just like those who live in Paris or Venice or Florida or Bodrum live there because they find it beautiful. But why is there the Turkish price for rents and purchase and  an astronomical  English or ''others price''

[Mercimek]

Marking- I think you have answered your own question there.

The people buying are prepared to pay the higher prices however that isn''t achievable in the rental market, this will be because the majority of people renting annually or seasonally will be on local wages. Yet again supply & demand. I will however say I know of people who have come here form Antalya and find the prices of long term lets extortionate, as they generally are by Turkish standards.

This year there is a shortage of rental properties however when foreigners have mentioned to me they are struggling to rent to holiday makers, they turn their nose up when it''s suggested to rent long term. I honestly don''t believe there are Turkish prices for house purchase, and let''s face it if you have a property for rent or sale and a foreign person is prepared to pay a higher price wouldn''t you take the highest price someone is prepared to pay? There certainly isn''t a situation like Guernsey for example where there are two price bands- local and open.

[Hoca]

If you want to live in a village in the hills alone then you can pay as little as £50 per month for a house not a villa or apartment and you can live easy on £80-100 a month, but you will have to be tea total speak good Turkish and lend to a totally different way of life. 

[caradog]

I agree with Mercimek and I think Marking is misled in his assessment. I have looked at the prices and letting returns of properties in a number of countries. Long term lets inevitably reflect local market rates. Kalkan is not the only place in the world where property prices are relatively expensive in relation to property prices in the rest of the country. Try looking at Krakow, Budapest, more desirable parts of Morocco and many other parts of the globe. Then look at the rates for long term lets. All are low. Lets face, although many have decided to live in Kalkan the bulk of the new property is built and used as holiday accommodation. Most people will be looking to let to holiday makers at a far higher rental than for long term lets
We own a 2 bed apt and have let for the last 3 years, around 20 weeks each year out of a 26 week season. We don''t even try in the winter. We have had a gross return of around 8%pa on capital. After all expenses this is around 5% net.
Take a look at British buy to let! At the moment if you can clear 5-6% gross you are doing really well. And to do that you would need to let around 45-50 weeks of the year. Not easy in a similarly saturated market. Many buy to let landlords are desperate to get out in the UK.
Capital appreciation I hear you say. Well I could have bought a 1 bed apartment in Cardiff Bay just down the road from me 3 years ago for £130,000. My daughter has just looked at one for £113,000, and offered £95,000 on it!
So who said properties weren''t volatile? Me, I''m happy with what we have in Kalkan and still think long term the gamble is as good as anywhere and we''ve got a great holiday home thrown in. So it''s not all gloom and doom.

[felicity]

Wow Caradog (and I know we have discussed this before on another thread) but please tell me your secret on how you successfully let out your apartment for 20 out of 26 weeks...I would like half that amount of weeks...!!