Kalkan Turkey Forum - EnjoyKalkan.com
Kalkan Discussion => Politics & Debate => Topic started by: alshepuk on July 17, 2009, 12:52:15 PM
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Was anyone else out in Kalkan when the full moon party took place in the harbour. We were shocked that the powers to be, whoever they are, let the muisc be so loud for so long. It was louder than I remember back in places like Benidorm and Ibiza a few years back. We stayed in Komurluk and it was really bad there goodness knows what it must have been like closer into town. I hope it is not going to be a regular thing.
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Seems strange as the police went into the Moonlight bar and Utopia and made them turn music down when we were there in june?
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While we did not hear anything from the 'Full Moon Party' we were in town about a week ago and found the general atmosphere to be noisy and unpleasant. The worst offender was the Pasha Bar in front of Belgin's Kitchen. The music was so loud and offensive it could wake up the dead. We decided not to return to town until September!
Someone else commented that Kalkan is fast becoming a mini-Bodrum. :(
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i think it is going to be regular as theres a Dark moon party there this saturday night
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It was me that said about mini Benidorm but I was referring to Kalamar road!
I think all the bars try to compete with each others music, the Pasha bar always turns their music up when Belgin's Kitchen has their live music playing.
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My son and his girlfriend have just come back from 2 weeks in Kalkan. One night whilst in town they said Pasha Bar had very uncomfortably loud music, and at first they thought they had strippers. These in fact turned out to be some sort of 'pole dancers,' 4 scantily clad ladies dancing on tables. I won't repeat their comments about the people watching in the bar, but they said the locals were standing at the top of the street looking distinctly uncomfortable.
They both felt that this was not appreciated by a large number of people themselves included. These two are university students(age 21) used to night life on the student circuit in Leeds. They said is was so out of character for Kalkan and embarassing to watch. I do hope that Kalkan won't try to head down the route of other destinations, with over loud music etc.etc. It would be such a shame if the ambience was spoilt and it became a victim of its own success.
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I understand that the new Mohito bar, frequented by many local turkish people, periodically have russian scantily clad pole type dancers...I have to say - I dont like the way this is all going too...but make no mistake - it is not just the tourists responsible for these types of changes..!! :( :(
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This is something that possibly the Mayor can do something about if enough people object to it. What if a petition is circulated, even online, to present to one of the people who participate in the Tuesday council meetings?
This sort of activity that seems to have started this year, needs to be stopped before Kalkan really gets a bad reputation. IMHO.
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This sort of activity that seems to have started this year, needs to be stopped before Kalkan really gets a bad reputation. IMHO.
I really hate to say it but I think the bad reputation is already taking hold.
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Russian dancers will be followed by Russian prostitutes and then Russian Mafia.....look at Spain now.
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Lets not stray too far off topic please ;)
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we already have russian prostitutes in kalkan! the winter before last they were working from an apartment next to my place!
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Wow that's a revelation :o :o
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Hi
The Russian ladies, called Natasha's buy the local people I have spoken to, have been 'working' in Kalkan for a long while now.
Em
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Yep - I can confirm that too from locals I have spoken to - some work out of aparts and villas empty during the winter... >:( >:( >:(
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Why don't they work in the summer.....makes more business sense :)
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Wandering off topic here......
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just wondered when the next full moon party is!Sounds great!
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The "dancers" at pasha bar were the Russians,pasha had a electronic party night starting at 10 .30pm until 03.30,plus laser show and free shots,as for locals being opposed to it,the pics I have seen show that probably 50% of the people in pasha are locals(facebook-pashabar ) It looked like a very busy night and this was number one of the nights,very nice russian ladies,take a look.
If pasha bar is making money,great,I have known Yusuf for some years now,and he has worked damn hard on Pasha,noisy,yes,not everyones cup of raki,maybe,but he has to make a living.
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Where is the Pasha Bar ?
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About 10 yards behind me as I type. 1st place on the right as you are walking down from Yalı bar towards Doy Doy. Or even opposite Belgin's Kitchen. The facebook piccies are well worth a look, even if it is just to disapprove.
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:laugh: Misty, Pasha bar used to be the Sultan ice bar,great bunch of lads,
and good drinks,its not busy in the afternoon so great to relax with a Efes and have a chat with Yusuf and the lads,but its not everyones taste. ;D
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Yep remember it now we had a drink in there a couple of years ago when it was called something else.......
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The Ice Bar
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Cant remember the name but it was very noisy and we didn't go back :(
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From what I'm reading on this forum I'm starting to have second thoughts on returning to Kalkan. Lots of people like this stuff, fair enough, but it's not my bag at all. Ibiza is quicker to get to from the UK, and cheaper, so not sure why Kalkan is developing in this way. Maybe Kalkan wants to start to make the majority of its money from booze rather than food - maybe it's more profitable?
Great shame, but hey, I'm sure I can identify and take my money to a quiet and un-sleazy holiday destination somewhere else in the Med. :)
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I would take everything you read on here with a big pinch of salt, it really isn't that bad & believe me its nothing like Ibiza!!
Kalkan still is a lovely resort, lovely people & lovely food, it still has some Turkish charm & the town centre itself is pretty much unchanged, its the surrounding areas that have grown.
If you believe everything on here then you'd expect it to be like Ibiza, burglaries, packs of wild dogs, noisy wild parties, if you take any notice then you'll go on holiday worrying about everything like I did until I realised it is still a wonderful place!
Everyone posting on here still go to Kalkan year after year so it can't be that bad!
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couldn't agree more Lougie. I've been going to Kalkan for around 14 years and in the past few years before each trip have read on this site about packs of vicious dogs, burglaries, wild parties, fighting taxi drivers, etc etc and yet each time I go I find the Kalkan that I love with all its charm and beauty. I'm not saying that problems don't exist but simply that I've not encountered them to any extent. Maybe I'm just lucky? Anyway, not long back from a perfect 2 weeks and already counting the days to our next visit in October.
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Same here, been back 3 weeks & I miss it so much & can't wait to return in October!!
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The mayor this week received complaints from people about the noise at Indigo, based on the fact that it shouldn't be that loud, outside, after midnight. The mayor has said that he will enforce the midnight rule at the next party. Let's hope he does!
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The end is nigh - we are all doomed >:D
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Wrinkly pole dancers whatever next.......I guess you have to chose you restaurants now to avoid such spectacles.
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The end is nigh - we are all doomed >:D
Kevincat it wasn't you practising pole dancing was it!?
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No Bev - cats do it on hot tin roofs ;D
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ha,ha and I bet they're really hot at the mo, unlike soggy Britain
;D
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Anyone who thinks kalkan is turning into Ibiza or Benidorm can't have been there!! these places are filled with thousands of youngsters in hundreds of bars with constant music...LOUD!!!......yes it's changed but can you tell me somewhere nicer in Turkey?(Bearing in mind i do like a bit of life and don't wish to be on a Lizardy rock in the mountains) ;)
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We hope to go back next year and it was 1 bad night out of 14. Lets hope the Mayor or whoever cracks down on this.
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Being the devil's advocate - surely the fact that the moon parties, the russian dancers (more this week I see from posters) and the black/ white parties attract quite a few patrons, as did the foam parties & moon parties last year- does this not suggest that there IS infact a market for them? I cannot imagine those hosting these parties would continue doing them if they did not attract enough paying customers to make them viable. No more than the boats would be sailing out of the harbour everyday if there wasn't any business.
It may not be everyone's cup of tea but alot of people seem to like them!
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Getting a bit worried now....just booked to visit Kalkan for the first time, as had heard it was more 'exclusive'.....have done Tenerife etc in my youth, wanted something quieter and more sophisticated. Have I made a terrible mistake?
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Being the devil's advocate - surely the fact that the moon parties, the russian dancers (more this week I see from posters) and the black/ white parties attract quite a few patrons, as did the foam parties & moon parties last year- does this not suggest that there IS infact a market for them? I cannot imagine those hosting these parties would continue doing them if they did not attract enough paying customers to make them viable. No more than the boats would be sailing out of the harbour everyday if there wasn't any business.
It may not be everyone's cup of tea but alot of people seem to like them!
There's definitely a market for them Mercimek, which is exactly why I question whether Kalkan will be able to retain the charm it has cultured and profited from over the years. Blue Lizard, you've obviously been going to Kalkan for donkeys' years - in your experience how much has it changed in the last 5-10 years, just out of interest?
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To KT29 - No you have not made a terrible mistake. There are commercial premises galore in this town, the majority of which cater to folk who are middle of the road like me. These new themes will probably endure for a season or two before dying off and the next big thing comes along. You have not made a terrible mistake in booking Kalkan for your holiday. Kalkan in the main, markets itself with an element of sophistication and that is exactly what you will find in spades. Do not worry. You will enjoy yourself.
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A few party nights doesnt make a Benidorm. ;D
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There really is nothing to worry about, Kalkan is just as lovely just a bit more lively but thats late at night when most people are in bed, you wouldnt even know these parties are happening at No Name Bar and the new Mojito Bar, Pasha Bar maybe, only because its in one of the main streets, but really its not that bad people are enjoying themselfs including the Turks who at the end of a long day deserve a bit of a night out, when I was there in June you couldnt hear the music from the Beach party in town so it must be something to do with the way the wind carry the sound...maybe, I'm not sure about the dancers think we could do without them but I'm female so perhaps if they had hunky men dancers I'd approve ;)
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Bang on 4EK,most of the people going to the party nights are locals,who want a night out when they have finished work,if you stay in the bars until late the people who have been working turn out,and it usually turns into a party,good clean fun. ;D >:D
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Oh yeh baby!!...best i brush up on my moves so i can throw some shapes!! iv'e tried moonwalking but i kept bumping into things ;D O0
Claire ....in answer to your question/
the hillsides have been developed (some nicer than others) but the heart of the old town is as it was,the people are as warm as ever and i find you get back what you give out...must dash i can feel a boogie coming on!! :D
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I will get Yusuf at Pasha bar to reserve you a barrel for the male dancing
slot my blue friend. ;D 8)
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The best nights are always when the locals are out and yes it is good clean fun, just dancing like nobodys watching, having a few drinks, laughing joking & having fun, no 18-30's style nightclubs just good bars with good music!
So no need to worry, Kalkan is the best, forget the rest!!
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Don't worry i will bring my own barrel.........it's up my t shirt!! ;D
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No KT29 you will not regret your decision to holiday in Kalkan. We have been coming for 10 years, there have been changes, not all of them to our taste but overall the heart of Kalkan is still the same. The table dancers and nightclub is much later in the evening and if you are staying on the periphery or across the bay this won't be of any bother. I certainly would have no interest in sitting in a bar with dancers- not my cup of tea, so I wouldn't go there, I would go elsewhere, there is plenty of choice!
Interestingly over the 10 years ,we have never seen anyone of any age under the influence of alcohol. Certainly not like Benidorm or Ayia Napa!
Go with the flow and enjoy!
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but can you tell me somewhere nicer in Turkey?(Bearing in mind i do like a bit of life and don't wish to be on a Lizardy rock in the mountains) ;)
Yes I can - but would then have to kill you to keep the secret!!! :D
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i may be a Lizard but i know Giant Iguanas >:D
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The "dancers" at pasha bar were the Russians,pasha had a electronic party night starting at 10 .30pm until 03.30,plus laser show and free shots,as for locals being opposed to it,the pics I have seen show that probably 50% of the people in pasha are locals(facebook-pashabar ) It looked like a very busy night and this was number one of the nights,very nice russian ladies,take a look.
If pasha bar is making money,great,I have known Yusuf for some years now,and he has worked damn hard on Pasha,noisy,yes,not everyones cup of raki,maybe,but he has to make a living.
I agree that the owner of these bars like Pasha, Indigo etc have a right to make a living, but it should not be to the detriment of Kalkan, its other businesses, villa owners and to all the tourists who faithfully come back year after year and give Kalkan their patronage. Something must be done to stop this NOW!
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Random,are you Turkish,do you work and make a living in Kalkan,and would you like it if a turk came over to the UK,to the place you live and told you what you can and cannot do ? I very much doubt it.
If you dont come into any of the above you have no right to tell any local to stop this or that because YOU dont like it,I dont like jazz,if its playing in a bar I just go to another bar,I suggest you do the same. ??? :o
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wish there was an icon for a handbag.... ;D ;D ;D ;D
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You ladies would only dance round it!! >:D ;)
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I agree that the owner of these bars like Pasha, Indigo etc have a right to make a living, but it should not be to the detriment of Kalkan, its other businesses, villa owners and to all the tourists who faithfully come back year after year and give Kalkan their patronage. Something must be done to stop this NOW!
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Random just out of curiosity, which of these categories do you come under, as you seem so vehement about this
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Fidimax, agree fully.
Myself & others I know weren't keen on the idea of the EK meet ups....but did we moan on here, did we try to stop them? No we voted with our feet and didn't go BUT let others go ahead and do what they enjoyed and thought was right, and hopefully made a few of the venues some extra kurus.
Yes Kalkan has changed over the years, it's not a small fishing village-but I would suggest were it just that and had no bank, a few simple restaurants, no beach clubs etc it wouldn't have the popularity it does which in turn fills the villas, restaurants etc.
Crikey it's not Ibiza, nor is it bar street in Marmaris.
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It seems to be the main beneficiaries of these events are the local youung Turkish population. Certainly the Full Moon party was full of young Turkish people having a ball as one of our daughters went. I didn't like the noise that night, but I'm a mere tourist and if I don't like it, I can vote with my feet. Who are we, as occasional visitors to Kalkan, to tell the young people who live there that WE, the TOURISTS, will dictate when they can have fun :o :o. Kalkan belongs to those that live and work there, not those who choose to holiday there. Simples.
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So how many of you will not be taking their holiday in Kalkan next year specifically because of these parties?
I sense a 'not on my doorstep' attitude.
I have only been to one of these events this year and a couple last year BUT when I have been in Kalkan & not attended I haven't been aware that they were on.
The ones I did attend seemed to have quite a high proportion of non locals there.
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We are back in October, so it's not affected how I feel about Kalkan. For some reason, the Full Moon Party was disturbing us up by the Kas Road and other posters in Kormurluk. Maybe it was the wind direction? All I kept thinking that night was how the people staying in Pirat were coping with the noise.
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I bet Sandals are Peeved!! the owner told us they had complaints from guests about the loud music so they had decided to go for a more relaxed bar area than as was!!i used to pop in before and did this year the place wasn't the same..but still comfy setees while you let your dinner go down ;)
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It wont stop me going to Kalkan - I did go to one of the Indigo beach club parties - but not really my scene - too loud head bangy music...give me good ole 70's disco anyday..!! ;D ;D It was full of young turkish people enjoying themselves! It also could not be heard from our villa - so easy to escape the noise if its not your thing...
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Fidimax and co.
You are missing the point here. Who I am, What I am and where I live are irrelevant. What is important is to understand that Kalkan survives almost entirely on its revenue from tourism. We have to ask ourselves some questions:
What is it that brings tourists back to Kalkan year after year?
Why do they choose Kalkan instead of say Marmaris or Hisaronu?
What is special about Kalkan?
Why are people prepared to pay more for their meals, their hotels, their accommodation even their villas here than they would in somewhere like Calis or the other places mentioned above?
Then ask yourselves this. If tourism in Kalkan suffers because of these bars etc Restaurants and other businesses will close, villa owners will start selling up and a lot of people will be out of work, then how many of these Turkish people who you say have a right to enjoy themselves when they finish work will be able to afford to frequent bars like those mentioned, indeed, how many of them will still be in Kalkan? they will be forced to go elsewhere to find work. Then these bars will no doubt close down and Kalkan will have lost an awful lot- and for what? NOTHING!
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I think the problem isn't full moon parties or Russian dancers, neither of which is to my taste but is enjoyed by some people, it's noise polution that is the problem. We were there in early July one night when the Pirat had some sort of entertainment up at their pool level and it was so loud down in the road that you had to shout to be heard. We thought it must be doing GBH to the ears of those up on the Pirat pool terrace. It wasn't a question of 'if you don't like it don't go', you couldn't avoid it if you were anywhere in the area. It was affecting trade at Sandals who had virtually no one in there and the other places nearby. The full moon party was evan louder I have been told.
The degree of noise polution this year down by the harbour on some nights, and I think in other areas of the town from other posts, is new and it is a problem because it makes it a no go area for an awful lot of people. If they want to have full moon parties that's fine but they need to keep the volume to a reasonable level so that those who don't want to go aren't affected.
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Bravo Kalkanregular, very well said!
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I am sure the owners of Sandal & Pirat are very capable of expressing their views to said owners if they feel anything is detrimental to their business.
Random- villa accommodation in Kalkan is kept at an unrealistically low level due to the high number available and demand. Compare with other areas and this will become apparent.
I made some enquires this week about gulet day trips in Gocek- the going rate seems to be around £200 a day for the boat excluding lunch, again Kalkan is much cheaper. So whilst restaurant prices are higher I think you will find Kalkan isn't necesarily charging a premium rate on everything.
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Did anyone catch the belediye announcement yesterday afternoon about revised (reduced) opening times and loud music policy for bars and restaurants?
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Yes the Belediye did make several announcements regarding loud music at night, lets see if they make a difference!
Mercimek, Thank you, you have given us the perfect example - Gocek, The mayor there has a clear picture of what kind of holiday place he wants Gocek to be. 'The preferred destination for the sophisticated traveller' that is how Gocek is marketed, and you won't find any rave parties going on there. They have really turned Gocek around in the last few years because they have a vision, they know which customer they are targeting and they are not trying to be all things to all people! Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting Kalkan should try to be a 2nd Gocek, what I am saying is that Kalkan needs to decide what it wants to be and who it wants to attract. If it tries to please everyone it will end up not pleasing anyone!
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I realise that business' might have to move with the times but as regards Kalkan if it ain't broke don't fix it!
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Hi Clara48,
I wasn't quite sure from your last post whether you were for the bars or against them, so I looked at other postings you have made and saw 'our next favourite place is the Greek island of Kefalonia, it has breathtaking views, fabulous romantic little restaurants, quiet beaches and like Kalkan no nightclubs, naff theme pubs or rowdy lager louts'. So I guess that means you are of the same opinion as me. Thanks
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I actually agree with Random, whilst I do think they are generally harmless, (apart the noise) these new clubs seem to be frequented mostly by locals, not the usual demographic of tourists that come to Kalkan. I think they are alienating a lot of people who just want to come and have a nice meal and a quiet drink. I'm surprised that they make much money, most of the Turkish people we have met don't drink or drink very little compared to us Brits. Obviously I'm missing something? As for Russian dancers, they are clearly not here to attract the typical Kalkan tourist - mostly couples, single women or teenagers?
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By the look of things,the mayor is on the job,if other trades are loosing custom because of the party nights, its up to them to complain,not English
"visitors" who are mainly in kalkan for a couple of weeks a year,If all the people moaning about this subject did the same for the place that they live in,in the uk,the uk would be a better place,get a life,get on with it,and let the people of Kalkan get on with theirs,its only a few party nights now and then for gods sake ! ::) ::) ::) :: >:( >:D
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I agree with you fidimax, whatever is this all about??? how many people have been disturbed by noise?? I bet before the start of this post not many knew of the parties apart from seeing the posters, they are not 'raves' or nightclubs just bars with music be it a bit loud sometimes
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WARNING
The Next full Moon is 6th August at 00:57mins!!!! >:D
Buy your ear plugs now.
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Oh bugger I'll just miss it, I'm going home that day!
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Fidimax,
Yes i'm an English 'vistor' that spends a couple of weeks a year in Kalkan, but please don't tell me to 'get a life' just because I'm concerned about the arrival of some of the new venues in Kalkan , even if it is only a few nights now and then. I'd just ask why do you think people spend the best part of a day getting to a resort, who are then willing to spend money on eating out for the same price as in a decent gastro pub in the UK?
I'm interested, what attracted you to Kalkan when your first came? probably not Russian dancers or moonlight parties.
But yea're you're right, let then get on with it, it's up to them isn't it?
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Dear English people,
I am Turkish and for long time I have a business in Kalkan. this is first time I am writing on enjoy kalkan but for a long time I am reading what you write. I write today because some of you say the new bars with loud music and dancing girls is for the Turkish people. Let me tell you they are not for me and they are not for my friends and neighbours. We don't want Kalkan spoiled by this new business. These bars make kalkan cheap and low level. We have been to belediye and complained hoping that we can have some effect but your effect as customer will be more valuable. All we want kalkan not spoiled. You may have other places to go if Kalkan spoiled but we dont have much choise other than kalkan and we dont want to go to another places. We must protect kalkan. If you love Kalkan you are the visitor and customer you have a right and duty to help us, please tell the belediye you dont want these bars.
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Hi Esnaf - good to hear from you and welcome to our forum!
It really is great to hear your viewpoint because certainly from the places that I have seen in full swing (Indigo beach party and Mojito bar) they seem to be full of turkish people! If you are indeed saying that businesses and turkish people (in the main) are not happy with these new bars and russian dancers then HOW can we, as tourists, property owners and generally short term visitors to Kalkan let the Belediye know that we are concerned about this?
What would you suggest we do? It is pointless us each going in and demanding to see the Mayor surely? Would organising a petition be a good idea? As a turkish person - I would like to hear your ideas for how we could collectively present a single voice to the Belediye!
Cheers!
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Given that the economy of Kalkan is signicantly based on the "tourist" trade, could I suggest that the Mayor/Belediye has an "Advisory Committee". This could be made up of resident UK expats, property owners who rent out etc etc i.e. those non-turkish who have an interest in the continuing success of Kalkan. This would give him access to the views and opinions (both good and bad) of the non-turkish element of the Kalkan economy. I'm sure he already hears the views of the local turkish community. As a property owner with an interest in the tourist trade in Kalkan (and a vested interest in the maintaining the fantastic veatures of Kalkan !), I would volunteer to join and contribute.
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Sounds like a good starting point Denners - I too would be willing to participate - perhaps we could talk to John Fed of Kalkan Turkish Local news to ask his views/opinion/help as I know that he already attends things at the Belediye and knows many people there...??
Cheers!
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Felicity, I think this would be a better means of providing a continuous dialog to the Mayor on many issues as they arise, rather than starting a single issue petition each time there is a 'big issue'. Certainly support your suggestion re John Fed. He would make the perfect 'chairman' !!!!
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Villa owners have a large responsibility in all this, they should be more discerning as to just who they rent to. If villa owners rent to groups of young people then what do you expect them to do on holiday? Go for a loveley walk or spend huge amounts sampling all the roof-top restaurants every night before getting home around 10.30-ish for a good nights sleep!
I don't think so, young people holiday for for the three s's, which means copious amounts of drinking late into the night coupled with a good bit of music banging out half the night,(actually wth this generation all nite).
If villa ownrs stop this at source by letting to families and couples more in tune with kalkan, these problems won't arise.
It's a bit rich asking the belidiye to cope with what is essentially our problem.
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Kim21, I agree villa owners have a responsibility but are you saying they should positively discriminate against younger people (with parents) ?
I think the nightlife of Kalkan has tended to attract families/older couples not groups of younger people. If the nightlife (late night bars, loud music venues etc) changes it will then attract them. So it works both ways.
Either way having a mechanism for a dialog with the Mayor/Belediye will assist everyone (including residents) preserve the best features of Kalkan and not turn it into a Bodrum !
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If you are all so concerned about these bars ruining Kalkan then we should also put a stop to the "very English restaurant" down Kalamar road and all the other restaurants doing English breakfasts, sticky toffee pudding etc, this is not Kalkan, this is not Turkish, this is a new thing that spoils the image of Kalkan, it's no different, these places are turning Kalkan into Bodrum.
Late night parties have been happening in Kalkan for years.
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Thank you Esnaf, for your view from the 'local' people and businessess. I was last in Kalkan 4 weeks ago and couldn't believe the noise that was coming from Mojito & Bar Code. Not only must it be disturbing for the tourists, but what above the residents that live close to this 'bars'. Felicity, I totally agree with you, I think the Mayor/Belediye should listen to the views of all people, but he has to remember that without, the owners and visitors - there will be no Kalkan!!
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If you are all so concerned about these bars ruining Kalkan then we should also put a stop to the "very English restaurant" down Kalamar road and all the other restaurants doing English breakfasts, sticky toffee pudding etc, this is not Kalkan, this is not Turkish, this is a new thing that spoils the image of Kalkan, it's no different, these places are turning Kalkan into Bodrum.
Great idea!
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You don't ruin Kalkan by having bars/restaurants offering different food types like English, Italian, Chinese, Indian etc. Thats just normal and a complete red herring (sorry !) to this debate. It hasn't ruined the UK by having a multitude of different types of restaurants....it adds the the diversity and variety. You also have to cater to the local market, whatever it is.
The point is things that potentially change the enviroment of a place for residents (both turkish and expat) and that attract visitors.
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Kim - i think we have been there before with your question about the responsibility of property owners to vet their properties and we have also answered - well at least some of us and I think we speak for the majority of property owners. I vet as much as I can the people renting my villa and I state on my website that I do NOT accept single sex parties, preferring families. First and foremost - selfishly - I do not want to rent to people who have the potential to ruin my lovely home and not respect it as they would their own home and for that reason - I vet all guests asking them the make up of their party (male and female and number of children). Secondly too, I do not want to be responsible for bringing hordes of groups of people to Kalkan turning it into a Bodrum or Marmaris, behaving inappopriately in town and disturbing my neighbours... What more can we do...??
BUT all that said - I really like Denners idea of an Advisory Commitee ;) ;) ;)
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I think what people are forgetting is that these places are not just frequented by young holiday makers but residents as well who might want somewhere to go and older people.
Kim 21 I think that is quite a sweeping generalisation that all young people only go on holiday for the three S's!! Haven't we all been young once ??I for one will be trying the new bars next time we are there.
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Whats the third "S" I think I'm only getting the first two ;D ;D ;D
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Are you all going mad!!!!! This subject has so far tried to tell local bar owners that they cant have loud music and dancing,is trying to close down any eating place that sells English food,has told villa/apt owners they cant rent to anyone who wants a bit of fun and is below retirement age,and is trying to ban any young people from Kalkan !
Last year while in Kalkan,I walked past a bar and it was very very noisy,so I headed back up to the main street,later on that night a "gang" of merry ladies dressed in seventies gear came staggering up the street,very loud,giggling and laughing,was this making Kalkan like Bodrum ?was there any thing wrong with this act of drunken madness,no It was a ENJOY KALKAN MEET UP,and they all had a good night out and enjoyed themselves
so let other people do the same .
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My daughter and her friends were in Kalkan a few weeks ago and went to Mojito, it was pretty much empty, and the majority of customers were Turkish. She also said the drinks were horrendously expensive and they didn't stay long. Interestingly their favourite night was having a special meal out at Trio, they ate in most other nights to save money to go on a boat trip.
It really is a mistake to target the youth market, if that is what these bars and clubs are trying to do. They don't have the money to spend on expensive drinks, they drink before they go out, and as eating out is not high on their agenda, the restaurants will not benefit. An interesting piece on Breakfast TV the other day reported how Zante has been ruined in recent years, with traditional restaurants having to close while the bars are practically giving alcohol away to attract custom. Obviously, Kalkan is nothing like this yet but I'm guessing Zante was once just like it.
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Sorry Jayne I dont agree with you about the Youth not having the money to spend in bars,If they are they are working,and live at home with parents,
they have more money than anyone,no bills to pay,so they have a full wage for themselves,my nephew spends £160 every other week on a pair of jeans
and £50 plus on a t shirt,wears them once then buys some more. :o
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Dear Forum participators
I wrote that most,you complain about noise pollution in Kalkan.You are right I am one of you.I suggest to you that please ask for Belediye tell them and when you go to restaurants or bar do not allowed for loud music because generally they don't know what is the result of noise they are jung and mostly uneducated people.Some people think that should be this sort of bar ,but I see them as a bulldozer they are running over hotels restaurants and still living in there.But Belediye have to think the rights of other humans.
Iam belive still we have time for livable Kalkan
by by for now.
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Dear Forum participators
I wrote that most,you complain about noise pollution in Kalkan.You are right I am one of you.I suggest to you that please ask for Belediye tell them and when you go to restaurants or bar do not allowed for loud music because generally they don't know what is the result of noise they are jung and mostly uneducated people.Some people think that should be this sort of bar ,but I see them as a bulldozer they are running over hotels restaurants and still living in there.But Belediye have to think the rights of other humans.
Iam belive still we have time for livable Kalkan
by by for now.
Sorry Jayne I don't agree with you about the Youth not having the money to spend in bars,If they are they are working,and live at home with parents,
they have more money than anyone,no bills to pay,so they have a full wage for themselves,my nephew spends £160 every other week on a pair of jeans
and £50 plus on a t shirt,wears them once then buys some more. :o
I agree the youngsters now have a high disposable income my daughter can blow a fortune each month no worries and my son is catching her up fast !
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Now we are getting somewhere,thanks for your posts Esnaf and pegasus,its good to hear local peoples opinion on this subject and if its effecting you,you must do something about it.
For me I dont mind if the bars have loud music as long as it stops or is taken indoors at a certain time,which is what I thought happened in Kalkan.
lets hear more from the people of Kalkan,for or against,after all they have to live with this week after week.
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My daughter is a student so not relevant to her yet but I get your point. however if the example of Zante is anything to go by, it is not a wise move in long run.
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Agree with Fidimax and would comment that there should be some control on how loud the music is even during the night time up until 'going indoors'.
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And I like young people as being in their company keeps us oldies younger !!!!!
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So, not only do i have to watch out for fighting taxi drivers,packs of hunting dogs,mad drivers and loud deafening music,but now gangs of drunken women waiting to pounce!!
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Old is a state of mind . ;D >:D :angel:
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And dont forget the Russian ladies of the night !!!!! :laugh:
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And don't forget the Russian ladies of the night !!!!! :laugh:
Do they offer a 10% discount for EK members ? :laugh:
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Lougie you seem to have a big problem with the"very English restaurant" down Kalamar road and on your theory you would close down lots of restaurants in Kalkan that offer Englishy meals.
So the Aubergine would go along with the Italian , the Chinese etc etc and if you also closed all the other restaurants who didn't sell real Turkish food you would only have a handful left
Then no visitors and all the villa letters would be up in arms as their aim in life seems to be to keep Kalkan as it is to attract the right sort of people who are prepared to pay high rents
This topic is all about freedom of choice as long as it does not directly impinge on other peoples enjoyment - similar to people smoking in restaurants.
But sensibly is eating an English meal on Kalamar road the death knell for Kalkan
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Well said KC99,freedom of choice,just because some posters dont like the
party nights,doesnt mean other posters dont,the same thing with the Nur live music nights,if you like it great,if you dont,hey,no probs,simples. :) 8)
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well said Fidimax and Kevincat !
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Was anyone else out in Kalkan when the full moon party took place in the harbour. We were shocked that the powers to be, whoever they are, let the muisc be so loud for so long. It was louder than I remember back in places like Benidorm and Ibiza a few years back. We stayed in Komurluk and it was really bad there goodness knows what it must have been like closer into town. I hope it is not going to be a regular thing.
There's not much freedom of choice in this situation though is there - apart from chosing whether or not to wear earplugs.
Just sayin'.
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I agree totally with freedom of choice.
If there is a restaurant selling food I don't like it isn't a problem - I just don't go but it doesn't impinge in any way on my enjoyment of Kalkan - but I think that restaurant has every right to be there.
The excessive noise levels however this year from some places (from my experience this was not the case in previous years or in May or even towards the end of June this year but there in early July) and the fact that it didn't reduced in any way at midnight does mean that there is no freedom of choice. Even when you move a considerable distance away you can still hear it, people sleeping down wind from it trying to sleep can still hear it.
I was initially concerned that the live music at the Nur would be a problem but it hasn't been as it is indoors and soundproofed. On Saturday night the music is outside but it finishes at a reasonable time. Consequently I have the freedom of choice to go and listen to it or to sit in peace on my terrace.
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Thank for your response to my post felicity, but my question was purely rhetorical and whilst you might do all you can to vet your holiday guests I'm afraid you can't possibly speak for all the villa owners. Believe me, there are many owners who are renting to any kind of group and changing kalkan is merely catering for them
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Agree Claire. Unlike different types of restaurants, you can't choose to avoid loud noise that isn't properly controlled and people find uncomfortable.
I'm in Kalkan next week so intend to check out the bars. Purely in the cause of research !!!
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I take it that if you rent your villa on a UK based site that discriminating against certain types of people could be classed as non PC or even illegal.
I would say that most of the teenagers & lower twenties in Kalkan seem to be either travelling with their families or staying at their families own property.
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I was simply trying to make a point, we all have a choice on where you go, if you don't like music bars, dancing girls etc then don't go, if like me you don't want English food whilst in Kalkan then I choose not to go.
By the way, I was there 4 weeks ago & didn't even know Monitor existed until the last week of my holiday so it can't be that loud, only inside! I wonder how many people posting have actually been to Kalkan recently & personally heard the noise?
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I don't "vet" prospective renters, on the basis of age and make up of the party. Partly because I don't think it is my role to try to enforce some sort unofficial Kalkan entry policy and partly because I wouldn"t feel comfortable rejecting someone based on nothing more than my predudices.
As we have a large 6 bed villa we attract afair number of bookings from large, usually youngish, groups but in 5 years of letting have never had any damage or negative reports of their behaviour from either our agent or neighbours.
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was in Kalkan the first 2 weeks in July and have to say I wasn't aware of any noise from the bars. Maybe from where I am, up near The Nur hotel the sound doesn't reach or as I get older my hearing isn't what it used to be ???
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for the young people its great that they can enjoy loud music in places--and for the rest-just turn your hearing aids down!
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Maybe they could set some up on Snake Island for them :)
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For heavens sake you don't own Kalkan. This sounds more like the Daily Mail and NIMBY. How many bars and restaurants are there in Kalkan? Over 100 and this debate if thats what you call it, is about 3 or 4.
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Personally this thread is now becoming amusing as I am sure many people have not fully thought about the way their comments will appear in the greater scheme of things and what the long term effect of them would be.
As EnjoyKalkan is a busy website on the open internet it is very heavily indexed by the major search engines. Thus the more a thread is discussed the more weight it gains on a search engine - that is to say that if a very busy thread was say, "24/7 nightclubs in Kalkan" should someone search on 24/7 nightclubs in Turkey, EnjoyKalkan would feature high up the list meaning those looking for such a resort would consider Kalkan a resort of choice. As the demographics of visitors would change, the businesses would have to change to cater for this demographic in order to earn a living.
If however someone was looking for say a nature trail in Turkey, Kalkan would not display on the search, or would be low down on the list of results as this is not a hot topic, meaning this demographic of visitor would probably not choose Kalkan as a resort as it would simply not feature to them when searching.
I hope you get the general idea of what I am trying to say, sometimes it is much more productive to focus on everything that is good and bring attention to that as opposed to an extreme focus on elements considered bad.
crime and barking dogs anyone? :D
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Jon - based on that premise the site would quickly be very very boring as it would be based on as Bryher said earlier, 59 posts saying how good Rendezvous restaurant was - who needs it??
You seem to be implying that we get back to the theme of the site being - everything is good in Kalkan and nothing, which is not within that " feel good "parameter should be mentioned.
Or have I got it wrong again :(
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Sorry KC you have got it wrong.
Im not looking to stop any discussion on any matters, if anything as has been said many times before it would be a very boring site if people posted every time something didn't happen!
What I am trying to say is that if you flip the argument on the other side of the coin, if someone is looking for a clubbing holiday and reads a forum with lots of people saying how sad it is an area has so many late night clubs developing there would this not make the area appeal to that person(s) which directly goes against what the complainer is trying to achieve.
Bit of reverse psychology :)
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I am going to have a lay down with a G & T to think about that one Jon ???
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KC99.....You dont need to turn to drink >:Dk, just do as you are told ! ! !
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Turning to drink seems preferable ;D
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I believe there are two schools of thought on the direction Kalkan should go. The first one being it should remain and build on being an exclusive resort offering facilities to the higher end of the market. Now I'll admit I have one foot in this camp but understand it would be difficult to achieve as the local business's need to see a fast and consistant return. It would take a few seasons to re-establish the exclusiveness many people are looking for if it succeeds at all !!!
The second being people would like to see more of the lively type bars clubs etc albeit controlled as to not over develop.... I guess the local business fraternity would like this as it increases "bums on seats".
So a very difficult situation and I can see the argument for both.... as a potential property owner I'll admit I'm more in favour of the first option but I think time will tell on how the resort goes...... could it cater for both ? :)
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Misty, a good point.
So isn't it down to the local authorites to control how developments/new bars etc etc are allowed to develop. They set the rules and will control how Kalkan evolves.
Therefore having a regular dialog through some sort of forum with the Mayor/Belediye helps get messages across and shape policy.
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Denners what if the way things are going is actually their policy............?
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Denners - it appears from advice that I have been given that the best way to inform the Mayor and Belediye is to write a personal letter. If it can be translated into Turkish all the better, but if not, they have people who can translate. In this way the Mayor and his team will get to know what people are thinking.
Petitions or gathering a deputation to send along to see the Mayor will make no difference nor will simply talking about it on EK as chances are the Mayor and members of the Board don't read EK.
Cheers!
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You would have thought that if the Mayor/Belediye wanted to keep their finger on the pulse of public opinion in Kalkan, they would have someone reading EK each day. I would if I was them !!!!
KCat99....you may be right but if there are concerns expressed by public opinion as to the way things are developing in Kalkan then those concerns ought to be made know so policy can be influenced.
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Reading all the posts on the subject, it appears that - some people are against it - some people are for it and some quite frankly don't care either way!!
So what message should be given to the Mayor - I would have thought that once the "local businesses etc " formed their opinion of how it was affecting their livelihoods , if at all, it would be quickly relayed to him and the Belediye
Otherwise we will start to have petions delivered to him about maybe - stopping Burger King coming- closing down businesses that offer English breakfasts and sticky toffee pudding etc etc
It would be more sensible if the Mayor employed real professionals to decide the long term future of Kalkan's tourism niche and the infrastructure required, rather than lots of daily whinges about a couple of bars or whatever
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Can hold my tongue no longer.
For a start, who on earth do you think you are to presume you can map the way Kalkan changes and progresses - as villa owners who visit a few weeks a year?? If people who bought holiday homes to let in, say, Blackpool, decided they didn't like the fact that new bars were being opened etc, do you think the mayor of Blackpool would appreciate a visit from them saying 'despite the fact that thousands of people happily live here 365 days a year we, who visit for 2 weeks a year, have decided we don't like what is happening and would like it to be changed please'. I think not.
Secondly, most people discussing the downhill tumble of Kalkan this season are not even in Kalkan and have not witnessed it - and those who have been here mostly appear not to have noticed. Echoes of the Brand/Ross scenario where only 2 people who actually heard the broadcast complained, prompting 1000s of complaints from people who didn't, and would otherwise have been totally oblivious. Yes, a few bars have 'Russian girls' dancing on the bar. If people did not enjoy Russian girls dancing on the bar, they would not be there. I personally do not enjoy Russian girls dancing on bars and therefore choose not to frequent such establishments, so they fail to bother me. The 'dreadful' restaurant on the Kalamar Road which serves Full English and Roast Dinners has, every time I have walked past, had at least 2 tables enjoying a meal there, so it obviously appeals to some. I have a freezer full of bacon and pork sausages which I enjoy regularly, but hope that this does not mean I should leave Kalkan in shame. Why should all tastes not be catered for?! Just because you don't personally like it, who are you to say it should not be there?!
On the point of large groups of teenagers and early 20s - 99% of these groups are sons/daughters and friends of parents who own villas in Kalkan. A large group of teenagers looking for a clubbing and drinking holiday, who had never heard of Kalkan, would go to Hisaronu or Kusadasi - they would not choose Kalkan unless they had connections with it. Felicity, you may not rent your villa to groups of young people, but are your children and their friends not those very young people who frequent such bars - you are open about the fact that they stay out until all hours of the morning in bars so what makes them any different to other groups of young people?? The answer is nothing - they are the very people about whom this thread has become focussed.
And anyone who believes that EK is the 'pulse of public opinion in Kalkan' when it is almost 100% populated by villa owners and holiday makers (the majority of residents gave up long ago) is clearly deluded. The mayor has far more important things to deal with than listening to a list of demands from foreigners about how to run a town that was running perfectly well and happily before hundreds and hundreds of people bought villas here, encouraged their offspring to invite their friends to stay in said villas thus inspiring the opening of bars to amuse said offspring, and then decided due to the purchase of said villa they had the right to a say in the running of the place.
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Well said Shirley Burley, I agree with most of your points.
Regarding EK can I just say that it was never our aim to make it the 'pulse of public opinion' but for it to be a useful website for tourists visiting Kalkan.
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I agree SB,
Reference EK as a 'pulse of public opinion in Kalkan' - Can I just re-iterate why EK was launched - to act as a tourism forum to promote Kalkan and not to act as a pressure group.
I really do feel this forum needs to get back on track :)
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If you read the EK stats, it has over 1500 members - less than 40 of them have posted on this bars thread, I think that's about 3%. Of those 3%, as KevinCat has pointed out, there is no consensus of opinion
As Shirley Burley says, EK members do not represent the pulse of public opinion here. Why should the Mayor take notice of 40 disparate views, when you can't even agree amongst yourselves what you want.
The situation will be resolved locally given time. Some may like the result same may not, that's called democracy.
Are so many of you really so full of your own importance that you think you know the full picture better than the Mayor and his team? A team which canvassed public opinion on the future that everyone wanted for Kalkan so successfully that he was elected by the electorate - the bar owners, shopkeepers, restaurateurs, cleaners, taxi drivers, teachers, waiters, tour operators, hotel owners etc etc, all the people whose future and that of their children depends on Kalkan continuing to flourish as a holiday resort.
The Mayor and his team have far more knowledge about what's going on here than any of you, They don't need deputations, letters, petitions or an advisory committee. This is their town. They are here to stay. Everyone who has posted on this thread who is British has the option either not to return or to sell and leave if they are unhappy about life here. Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion, but to start suggesting that EK members should be telling the Mayor how to run Kalkan would be ludicrous if it wasn't so laughable.
The local population are here for the long term and they should be trusted to get the future of Kalkan right. To hear many of you talk you would think that Kalkan was run by a bunch of illiterates who couldn't function without the assistance of the Brits. Ever heard of Colonialism.?
How many of you have been to a meeting of the Belediye to see democracy in action.? How many of you have met our Mayor?
As Shirley Burley so eloquently puts it, who do you think you are? That would be the Mayor's first question too, except he is rather too polite to be so blunt.
Lantana
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Just to to add a little salt and pepper to this debate Pasha Bar pay their rent to the Mayor directly. not sure if belongs to him personally or to the belediye but guess it means he is aware or should be aware of their entertainment programme!!!!
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He does,he is,and the full moon party was at indigo,Pasha bar had a electronic party,which I think was probably a one off,if you use Pasha bar you will notice that ever since Yusuf took over,at midnight he always shuts the doors to keep the noise down,and when the "kitchen" across the street has live music he turns down the music,so not to interfere with the live music from across the street,which is more than you can say for Yali and moonlight. >:D
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Here here fidimax!
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We first came to Kalkan because we were told it was laid back, peaceful, had great restaurants and bars, lovely views, scenery and culture, that it did not attract lager louts and other objectionable and anti social holiday makers, and that the music bars closed their doors or switched their music off at midnight. We have been 5 times since 2007 in May and October, the last time in late May this year. We have experienced all of the above, and have loved all of our holidays here. The sum of the parts is why we return twice a year. It seems to me that the only variables are likely to be the last 2 points mentioned. Perhaps, as we visit before and after the high season, our holidays will remain as perfect as ever! If not, we will just go elsewhere.
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Whilst I have had different opinions from Lantana in the past I must concur with her on this
In his short time in office the Mayor seems to have shown an awareness and leadership in Kalkan which was lacking in the past.
Everyone that you speak to welcomes the changes he is making / has made and people seem to be working with him and the Belediye to make sure they continue in this vein, for the benefit of both locals and tourists alike.
As Lantana says, to slander the man in this way causes those of us who live here great offence and no doubt the local Turks as well.
Jon please have the post removed NOW !!
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I too can stay quiet no longer. Having incurred the wrath of the "regular aren't we great brits" before I vowed not to become involved again but the shear arrogance of some. Felicity etc, has made be so angry I must.
ShirleyBurley, Lantana and Kevincat99 have put the matter beautifully and I would not add to their comments, other than to agree totally.
We are privileged to live for most of the year in Kalkan, unlike most of the experts and if the town becomes something we dislike then we have the chance to put up with it or move. Just because we appear to have a little money and own property does not give us the right to dictate to the Mayor or indeed anyone else. Likewise those who own property but simply use it as income albeit in the hope of one day retiring to it should have no influence in the running of the town.
Felicity, have you ever bothered to think how offensive your so called popular party nights may possibly be to the locals. English belly dancers, etc? Probably very amusing for English sycophants but certainly aping a long standing traditional custom.
Let EK stay as Jon intended or what has in part become a social notebook for English dwellers or visitors to maintain their clannishness.
As for the outrageous post of Misty words fail me. Had it been said or written in UK the writs would have been flying. What ever made him or her think it could be said in Turkey. It was not only offensive to the Mayor but but by inference just about any Turk. My hope is that it is regarded by them as a one off by an unthinking individual and does not reflect the views of others.