Why are we here?

[bryher]

After the sarcastic and irrelevant comments from my last post I have thought long and hard before writing what is a very sincere opinion on a subject about which  I feel passionately. I hope the usual one liners will try to understand before jumping in.

Why are we here? I am because after many years as a tourist I bought a villa 7 years ago and spend 8-9months here every year in what to me is a near paradise. Yet from what I hear and read not only in EK it would seem that for some this is not enough and now we hear of "ex pats" joining together to make changes, forming English clubs and so on. Surely the majority do not want to turn Kalkan into a Spanish Costa which is what this would imply and eventually achieve.

What audacity for us as visitors to imply that we know better and can make changes of any sort. We came to live in Kalkan voluntarily, no one forced us and we should accept it as it is. We are all disappointed at some of the changes which have taken place but if they are too much then move.

You may own a villa but you are not by definition a visitor, you are a property owner and for however little each year a resident. So, how many of you still travel on 90 days visitors visa''s rather than pay the price of a Residents Permit, how many of you pay tax on the income generated by letting, how many work (I include the new growth of airport transporters) without declaring and again paying tax.

Where a similar situation to arise in England there would be outrage and rightly so but here it seems a matter of pride that the revenue has been cheated.

We all enjoy Council Tax at a very minute level compaired to UK with utilities also at a very low cost.

Instead of being grateful for the almost Utopian existence we enjoy compared to our Turkish friends we continue about high prices, being ripped off by Kalkan traders. Despite the earlier comment of one poster we do not pay different rates for items in shops, markets etc and unlike the Turkish we can actually afford to pay the increase.

I know that the largest number of replies will come from the small % who have now become used to using this wonderful website to send each other personal notes. We don''t all want to know that Cedric and Mildred are coming next week. In the great scheme of things "so what"!. There usual response is if you don''t like it don''t read it. A form of censorship!!!

So much work by Jon deserves more than the chit chat he is getting and facetious replies will inevitably deter new blood.

A long article, I know, but I have said  my thoughts sincerely and carefully which are that we may own property or return annually for holiday but we are still guests here and we should not try to emulate practices in UK or bring it in whatever form to Kalkan by Brit clubs etc.

Thank you for the time you gave to read this.

Linkback: https://www.enjoykalkan.com/forum/index.php?topic=1762.0

[MartynE]

Bryher, I for one understand what you are saying but I think you COULD have put it all in a succcinct one-liner...

"When in Rome do as the Romans do"

That is all!

[bryher]

Thank you MartynE for the courtesy of your reply but your quote whilst apt did not express enough detail.

[BevJam]

I read with interest your note on those of us owning in Kalkan and do agree whole heartedly with most of the context of your note.

We wanted to integrate into the culture of the area and as such bought an apartment which is based in an area which has a mix of local people, Turkish seasonal employees and British. What is wonderful is that our neighbours are so friendly and supportive, appreciating our limited language skills and sharing their thoughts, ideas food etc. For example a group of ladies were making pancakes outside for sale at the market the following day. They went to the time and effort of showing us how to make them, then making extra ones for my husband and I, which were delicious.

I for one do not want to change things to make it more British, and I don''t think a lot of others do. Although it is lovely to meet other people who love the place and have made the same decisions as we do. So chatting with like minded folk is just normal.

I do however understand the frustrations of the slower pace and maybe it just takes time to accept such things. You''ve obviously had a great deal of time to acclimatise - and I envy you that and look forward to the day that I can. In the meantime roll on July....

So no one line flippant comeback just a measured response

BJ

[Enişte]

I am one of those members that replied to Bryher''s original post, almost certainly one of the more facetious such replies.  I think, with the benefit of hindsight, we might both have counted to 10 or more before hitting the Publish button on that day.  I would still, however, like to comment on this post and will try to be brief, even if this apparently renders my views irrelevant.

I too feel passionately about Kalkan and Turkey, having met a Antalyan angel in 1999, married her in 2002, venturing along the coast to Kalkan for the first time in 2004, buying a lovely property on that same visit.  One of the main negatives of Kalkan to me on that visit was the very fact that its visitors were almost entirely British ones, with Kas having the more varied clientele from Northern mainland Europe.  We chose to purchase in Kalkan because of the place and the local people we met, not on who visited it on holiday.  I still very much hope that it does not turn into another Bodrum or Ibiza.  If anyone is interested, I consider myself to be a bit of a snob.  Sorry.

As we plan to move permanently next year, I am almost looking forward to the off season more, with less people generally around the village.  But while I selfishly want to keep Kalkan to myself and a select few others, I know that many are very keen to find out about Kalkan, to visit and perhaps purchase their own little bit of paradise.  Wherever you travel in the world, those of the same nationality will almost always flock together.  Whether this means meeting up for a drink or frequenting a discussion forum, there will always be a degree of ghetto mentality.  One might consider North London''''''''s Turkish and Cypriot communities as examples of this.  Some choose to integrate, others to avoid contact with the locals, most taking a central line.

With apologies to the people of Kalkan, it is not perfect.  Very close, but not quite.  It is not Turkodisney, and is the better for not being that.  There is some crime, there is some dishonesty, but probably less than anywhere that any of us calls home.  Some shopkeepers will charge tourists more than locals, of which I would reluctantly provide examples.  Some of those Brits staying in Turkey for longer will bend various rules, a practice with which many living in the UK will be familiar.

I liked the When in Rome quote elsewhere.  We should all do what we can to integrate and communicate with our hosts.  But I do not see that this should mean that we are required almost to deny our foreignness.  At the risk of being tarred as rooneyesque, I will continue to read this dangerously British forum, ignore what doesn''''''''t interest and read what does.  My wife and I will be in town from ..... sorry, you don''''''''t need to know that.  God Save the Queen and Fatih Terim!

[Enjoy Kalkan]

Just to interject for a moment, whilst EnjoyKalkan does have a large British audience the current Google advertising budget is actually focused on other countries but with less take up.

Perhaps members who rent out there properties to non British families could introduce them to EnjoyKalkan? 

[Enişte]

Uitstekend!  Wunderbar!  Here''s to more input from the rest of the world and less from Little Britain.

[bryher]

Thank you Eniste, you may not be happy but we are actually playing the same tune. You are rather more prosaic in your views I prefer to be more direct.If the wish that Kalkan does not become a Bodram or Marmaris is the view of a snob - then count me in.I agree that it is human nature to recognise fellow nationals when abroad and also the London comparison. To a degree you are correct but London is big enough to swallow up such communities - Kalkan is not.
Because rules are bent in UK does not make it right here. If as becomes apparent everyone enjoys the benefits of being here then the responsibilities follow.
I would certainly never give up my britishness (rather cornishness). Until here I was with you Eniste and then the final lines and your follow up, Oh dear why spoil with such remarks a very sound post

[Enişte]

Bryher

We are getting closer to almost complete agreement!  I apologise for the dig about who is in Kalkan when.  I don''t really care much about that either.  I have a cunning system of getting to know people of any nationality that visit Kalkan - it''s called talking to them.  I would certainly not feel the need to meet up with someone from this or any site just because they are British.  I can speak reasonable Dutch, German, French and fluent Gibberish, so find this the best way.

The follow up was not aimed at you - it was the snob in me coming to the surface.  I would very much welcome more international input on any Kalkan-related subject and will continue to ignore it, read it and respond to it as I wish.  Regards,

[Brooksie]

Eniste
Please can you qualify why you think this forum is dangerously British. Excuse the one line reply, I know you what you think about these.
Brooksie

[doug46b]

Mark,
         Spot on.  Having great time. Omar says Hello.  Speak soon 

[Hilary]

Gosh, some strong feelings. I will throw my penny in. sorry! I visited Kalkan over 20 years ago when backpacking with female friends. loved it. We are going back as a family this year. Whilst we are British we are a diverse family. My husband was born in the caribbean and my children are dual heritage. We read the Guardian and the Daily Mirror!!. So important not to make assumptions about what being British mean in terms of ethnic identitiy , class, and where we live (not in north london by the way)
Still really looking forward to our holiday and having a magic time

[Em1]

''Very courageous''! Topical too!

[Enişte]

Brooksie

I was reacting, perhaps too strongly and sarcastically, to earlier comments.  I think this site is an absolute joy and am very proud to be British and to have married into Turkey.  If you look again at what''''s above, I was not the one that had any problems with the length/quality of messages, but I think Bryher and I now seem to have calmed ourselves.

Hilary

I was certainly not intending to insult anyone''s heritage or class or choice of reading material.  I love Kalkan as it is, and hope that it will not change too much.  But I have spent many years representing the UK overseas, much of which was spent trying to keep Brits out of trouble.  I have seen the way that many of them behaved in various parts of the world, and was often appalled by it, which might partially explain some of my comments before.  I hope that Kalkan will continue to reflect all that is good about Turkey and to an extent grow to show some of what is good about the UK. 

I hope you have a fabulous holiday and keep coming back to this little town that raises such emotions.

All in all, we seem to have a very wide range of views here.  Good to see!

[itstime]

Hi Bryher Whilst I agree with most of your sentiments I have to take issue with your assumption about it being an "English" problem. you do correct yourself later and mention the Uk but as someone from the UK who is not "English" this generalisation drives me nuts in much the same way as the "English" aspect of Kalkan is getting to you. Please remember that there are many people of all nationalities who are members of this board  and some of us, though maybe not all, object to the generalisation that the UK is made up only of English people. Maybe better to confirm if you do actually only mean English people or are you referring to all UK residents.
I''m not being facetious or sarcastic just responding to an age old problem for us non English people

[Hilary]

lets all make friends and acknowledge diffferences and value diversity!! Relax and have good holidays!! Let go............

[misty]

At last a voice of reason...........chill and just enjoy the beauty of Kalkan.......

[Enişte]

Two very sensible and short posts - exactly!!!

[bryher]

Could I please close with the case for the defence. Put very clearly - 1. I was actually asking for more diversity in content and that EK does not become just a diary for a few UK  residents or tourists. 2. That sarcastic replies are not funny and deter new writers 3. A one line answer can be very appropriate, the alledged funny one liners are not. At least respect the views of the writer even if you disagree. 4. Finally the excellent forum Jon has created is too good for it to be just used by a small group of "UK" writers for very personal items which are of no interest to the majority.
If appropriate in Jon''s review of the formum a pure chat page could be made and the remaining huge number reduced it would help both sides to make their own best use.

[misty]

So that''s it everyone is out of step with you.....you don''t appreciate so called UK tourists etc etc.......you remind me of EX-PATS I have met all over the world....and taken great steps to avoid !!!!!