Kalkan Turkey Forum - EnjoyKalkan.com
Kalkan Discussion => Politics & Debate => Topic started by: fidimax on March 06, 2011, 08:19:05 PM
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I have been a member of this forum for a few years now,and it is looking like Kalkan is becoming a place for snobs,a hell of a lot of people seem to want to make Kalkan into their own little paradise.
Eg "I have a villa" or " I have apartment " and I dont want this or I dont want that...
well excuse me,you are in Turkey,not the uk,you are a guest in turkey,stop your moaning and try to be a local,not a brit.
If you are not happy with the high rates you charge for your villa/apts...........sell up and leave Kalkan.
I am probably a novice compared to most of you,but for christ sake,a lady in a swim cozzy or a bloke in a pair of speedos is not the end of the world.
So come on get a life,Enjoy Kalkan for what it is,who cares if the bloke in the next apt/villa is wearing Budgie smugglers...... I am in Kalkan,I am Happy....
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Oh dear,now I am going to get a mawling from the kalkan elite, well tough,get off your high horse,you are in Turkey,we all like kalkan because it is turkish,and it doesnt have the stupid rules some people want to bring in...................
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OMG Worm can open springs to mind....you will be sent to Coventry, black balled and what ever else they can do to you ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
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Yeah,I know misty,but I have had enough,I dont want to see kalkan becoming a little uk for snobs,I love Kalkan the way it is,it seems to have no rules,no hassle and no poshness ( is that a word ? ) this is why I,and a lot of holiday makers like it,yes holiday makers,normal people,who dont own a villa or apt in Kalkan,but one day would love to,these are the people who visit once,twice maybe three times a year,and spend a hell of a lot more than some of the " owners " in kalkan.
So,Yes I am sorry for any offence,but hey,I am sure you will get over it....
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OOOOOOOH,by the way,Kalkan will always be my first love in turkey,but,I have now been bitten on the butt by the Kalkeici in Antalya,no snobbery and you find that place that you can call your own,just like Kalkan,if you know what I mean......
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I know what you mean I was looking to buy but for this and other reasons the jury is still out on that one >:( >:( >:(
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And tell me Fidimax in Kalkeici do you see half naked men and women in restaurants? Progress brings change, sometimes not for the best. I for one definitely do not what Kalkan to become a mini UK but with (mainly British) people walking about half naked that's exactly what we are heading for. Tell me when was the last time you saw a Turkish man or Turkish woman sitting in a restaurant in Kalkan wearing swimming clothes bearing flesh for all to see? So I personally vote for no swimming cossies in the street as I have too much respect for my Turkish hosts and the last thing I want to do is offend them. So let's keep Kalkan Turkish and by doing so honour and uphold their traditions.
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I am sorry Charlie,have you ever been in the Kalieci,it is in Antalya city centrum,not really a small coastal village like Kalkan,and yes,by the small town beach,people in swim gear,and to answer the Question about any Turkish Man/Woman sat in a place in Kalkan,the men,yes, nearly every bar or eating place in Kalkan during the day,The turkish ladies,NEVER.
Oh and lets not let all the Turkish locals get embarressed with all the people wearing swimwear in the street,dont talk rubbish,in summer every Turkish lad from 12 to 30 has a pair of billabongs on.......SWIMWEAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!! and they are walking around the streets,serving in bars ect.
P.s. have you ever been to the " SMALL TURKISH PLACE " that is Antalya,oh sorry Kalieci is a very small part of the city.
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Fidimax I never said I had a problem with swimwear at the beach but I personally feel we insult our Turkish hosts by walking around the town half naked. Lets not forget Turkey is a Muslim country and we should respect their traditions.
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Yes Charlie,I know what you are saying,but,when you have a resort like kalkan,which is,what ever anyone says is a "BEACH" resort,and you have maybe 75% of the locals that work in town are under 30 years old,and all wear beach shorts ect during the day,in bars ect,why would it be disrepectful or upsetting to the locals to see a pale englishman in shorts when he comes off the beach.
I have a lot of young turkish friends in Kalkan,I am not a young man,but the young people of Kalkan,and most likely all the other beach resorts in turkey,have no problem with beach wear during the day,I am the same ,but if you are eating away from the beach/water,or at night,get some clothes on !
the same in a supermarket or shop,clothes on..............
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Fidimax exactly what I am saying swimwear for the beach not restaurants, shops, supermarkets. I do not have a problem with any pale Englishman or any man wearing shorts in a restaurant of course that is normal but I would have a problem with him sitting beside me eating lunch in a pair of wet (or even dry) Speedos! I guess it's a case of what defines swimwear?
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As I have said before,this thing about beachwear in the streets of Kalkan seems to be aimed at young ladies in bikinis and pot bellied men without shirts on walking around in town.
I myself have been sat at moonlight in 120 plus,my t shirt was dripping and I wasnt comfortable wearing it,the bar lads at moonlight had no shirts on and swim shorts,and they told me to take my shirt off and relax,so which is it,listen to people from the UK who dont like swimwear or shirts off in town,or do what the locals do,and be comfortable ?
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I agree Charlie,but how many men do you see in kalkan wearing budgie smugglers these days,if you do they would most likely be in their 70,s- 80,s,unless they are German or Russian........ ;D
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We were sitting one afternoon having a cup of tea at one of the restaurants along the the harbour very near to Aubergine last summer. A small group of English girls, all very pretty, all very young & all dressed in bikini tops & skimpy shorts walked by. One of the waiters/managers was standing next to us preparing for the evening trade. He said " hi" & started chatting to the girls, nothing offensive, & of course had a big smile on his face, he wasn't your 19-20yr old either. The young 'ladies' just looked at him, he got the biggest black looks, they then carried on walking by. The waiter was mortified & very cross, he turned to us & asked why these girls dressed as they did, acted as they did, if they didn't want attention, he said Turkish girls would not be so rude. We did witness the whole incident & at no time was this man offensive towards these girls in any way. It was intestesting however, the conversation we had afterwards as towards his thoughts & that of other staff near by with regard the holiday makers dress sense, & some of that included the men !!!!!. It may be worth remembering that it seems, they may accept your skimpy dress code, but that doesn't mean they like it. Business is business. Just an observation.
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My husband and I find it in bad taste, and eyesore and offensive to have to look at loads of fat dripping sweat walking along a town road far from the beach. As for the pretty girls with little on -- or older women flaunting their bikini tops off the beach, they can expect and deserve whatever they get.
It is no small wonder that men in Moslem countries -- all of them -- consider western woman as game for fun and looking for sex. The men may smile and be polite -- or not -- but if you listen to what they say privately, that's a whole different matter. This is aside from the issue of respecting cultural mores and morays which is also a valid point.
Having lived in Kalkan since 2002 and visited here since 1991, I have yet to see any Turkish women walking around town in bikini tops or even scantily dressed. Nor have I seen bare-chested young Turks walking in town but I'll take for word for it.
If that makes me a snob, I'm delighted ... it's a compliment!
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..the thing is we can only be responsible for our own behaviour and choice of dress. What one person deems appropriate, the next person won't...its all subjective. Kalkan markets itself not as a sleepy, forgotten in time, traditional Turkish village - but as a slightly upmarket more cosmopolitan resort...it can't have it both ways..! The visitors are predominantly British and many of the bars and restaurants cater for British tastes - many of our Turkish friends in Kalkan, although Muslim, embrace a more westernised lifestyle. This is the crux of the issue and what is offensive to the more traditional Turkish community and indeed some expats, is not neccessarily as offensive to the more secular community. Many of the Turkish people we know will move with the times because it's business at the end of the day, and what they may privately think of British women, in particular, I would say is coloured by the behaviour of some not the majority. Do I think its inappropriate for "swimwear" to be worn away from the beach - for me personally yes because I don't look like Elle McPherson... :) :-* Everybody else has to make their own choice.
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Can i just say i am no way a snob and i own an apartment,but i have to agree with fidimax there are lots of people who own property in Kalkan and think they are so much better than everyone else,and yes you just go into certain bars and restaurants in Kalkan and it is like just being back in the uk, all the British in their little "CLICK"
But on the other hand i dont walk about in swimwear or with my top off even though i am from the NORTH !!!!!!!
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Nothing like brits abroad..... :) :) :) :)
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i own an apartment
Ooh la dee dar, get you, you cliquey, snobby, posh property owning northerner you ;)
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I'm coming to Kalkan for the 3rd time in July with my 2 teenage daughters but beginning to wish now that I wasn't,if all residents are like member COSETTA.
I am totally shocked that in 2011 we still have people saying things like(in relation to young girls and woman in general"flouting" their bikini tops,and walking in the street in bikini tops and shorts)"they can expect and deserve whatever they get, and "no wonder muslem men consider western woman all game for fun and sex".
Lady you ought to be ashamed of yourself with such views that takes us back to the times when young women had been raped and because they were wearing a short skirt or low cut top "they got what they deserved.
Are you living in the dark ages.
So I when I come to Kakan with my teenage daughter and they are wearing little shorts and tops and I myself may be wearing a low cut top,are we going to be 'asking for it' and are we going to 'deserve it if we get it.
Thank God you are living in Turkey because you wouldn't survive long in the UK or wherever you came from with such views and I sincerely hope that isn't the views of most residents of Kalkan.
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Wow :o :o :o
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I think that because it is a muslim country and a very patriarchal society that females of any age are liable to be looked at differently and with different regard than if they were in the UK. Many will not realise this, many will not care, but it is a different country after all.
I personally don't really like seeing bikini tops and shorts and barechested males off the beach (in Turkey or in the UK) but it is up to the individual. If any one person is offended then that is their decision, just as it is the decision of the scantily clad male or female to dress in that manner.
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I am pretty sure that the Turks dont really care what we Brits wear. They do have a different culture and how they dress is important to them, they have their own codes of what is 'okay' and what is not 'okay for both men and women.
We too i guess have an unwritten rule of what is okay and what is not okay to wear and what should be worn to certain places, ie the beach, a beach bar, a restaurant etc etc. In my opinion i would say a Brits code is this: Beach wear is for the beach, shorts and t'shirts can be worn for any occassions and if you are eating you should wear something on your top. How many of us would go into a bar or restaurant even on a hot summers day without a top on? Not many of us i dont think, I am pretty sure i dont know anybody. Actually, i am not sure you would be allowed in without a top on?!! So if we dont do it at home, why would we do it in Kalkan, anyway the point is the Turks really dont care what we wear its the other Brits that do.
The only thing i would say is that women regardless of their shape and size walking around in bikinis (other than on the beach) be prepared to be stared at, by both English and Turks. Same applies to some bloke walking around town in a pair of speedos. It doesnt happen much and as with anything that is an unusual sight, people will look. So if you dont want to be stared at then dont do it.
I personally think that topless bathing unless in private is completely inappropriate and if possible should be banned. i have no desire to sit looking at somebody elses, what should be, private body parts. Again this is my view and I'm English and again i really dont think the Turks care, as long as its not their women.
With regard to 'asking for it' well i dont beleive that anybody is 'asking for it' but if you wear a very low cut top then expect people to look, men, women, english, turkish, german. Its human nature and if you dont want people to look then dont wear one. If you dont care, then knock yourself out
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I have made Kalkan my home for many years and I've seen it change in that time. The world at large is becoming more "skimpy" so it would make sense that it trickles down to our small village but it doesn't spell impending doom for the character & charm of the place.
The Turks working in Kalkan know that business is business in the end so they would not turn away a customer based on how they are dressed (or not, as the case may be). People working in Kalkan basically have six months to make enough money to carry them through the winter so they don't have the luxury to support a "No Shirt / No Service" policy.
What those same owners and workers may think privately can be a different matter BUT blanket statements are not appropriate because not all of them are from Kalkan, but from surrounding areas, the cities and from eastern Turkey. Each of these areas have their own ideas of what is acceptable and you could find your head spinning if you tried to meet all levels of acceptability.
So it comes down to each individual's judgement as to what they should be wearing and how they should be behaving. But be forewarned, as Pasha says, that any woman dressed in a bikini or skimpy clothing is going to be stared at . . . doesn't matter what country you happen to be in. So if the way you are dressing elicits attention that is unwanted then change the way you dress rather than complaining about the attention. If you want to be taken seriously in Kalkan (or anywhere, really), the way you dress creates the first impression - anyone who has ever interviewed for a job knows this. But if you're in Kalkan to escape reality for a week or two and are not really bothered about being taken seriously, knock yourself out, wear what you want . . . you're on holiday after all!
As for the idea that Turkish women would never wear bikinis or skimpy clothing . . . open your eyes. While everyone is talking about Kalkan as a British resort, over the past few years the number of Turkish tourists has been growing, which I think is fantastic and long overdue. Maybe Cosetta is too busy taking stock of what the British girls are wearing to notice that Turkish women visiting Kalkan are quite comfortable daytime or evening wearing resort wear which is . . . skimpy to say the least. So again, a blanket statement that Turkish women would never dress this way is simply wrong.
KD
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Well said KD. That should be the end of thread imo.
PW