Kalkan Turkey Forum - EnjoyKalkan.com
Kalkan Discussion => Restaurants, Bars, Nightlife & Shopping => Topic started by: visitor on October 15, 2009, 02:35:21 AM
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Hi, I recently visited Kalkan for my first time at the end of September. After doing some searching on the internet once I had returned I came up with this great website!
The first night we got there we just wanted to find the closest bar/ restaurant or anywhere that sold food and we stumbled upon the Parc Kalkan. I would just like to say that the food there was good and the place is lovely and has a lovely atmosphere about it.
Later on in the night an English lady who said she owned that restaurant came over to our table to talk to us. She had obviously had a lot to drink and was smoking a cigarette at our table. Neither of us are smokers and didn't really appreciate her smoking at our table. She also tried to promote her book to us. We did not want to spend 25 lira on a book that didn't interest us and felt rude that we had not bought it.
After our first night there we thought that this would be the norm everywhere and that we had chosen "another English resort" but after the 2nd night we realised that this restaurant was one of its kind with the most English influence in the village.
We definitely enjoyed our holiday there that was the only night we didn't truly enjoy.
We will definitely be back to kalkan next year!!
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Dear visitor, Trish's book is very well written. In the winter, she runs an informal history class here. Prior to living in this part of Turkey, she was a lecturer at a British university. Sorry though that she bothered you, I'm sure she will be more careful in future.
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Welcome to EK
Have to agree Cosetta, Trish's book is very informative. I bought it when we were over last month.
Forgive me for being forward but I think it's a bit rude what you have written on a public forum - obviously you are entitled to your opinion but I think one that is of such a personal nature shouldn't be public. They have EK in Kalkan too - how will Trish feel if she reads this?!
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A shame also that you concentrated on the only night that you didn't enjoy, what about sharing some of the detail of what was otherwise an enjoyable holiday.
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I'm sure the book is very well written however we were not interested in it and felt uncomfortable after we had said so. I did not mean to offend the author or how it is written I'm sure it is a good book.
I wouldn't know where to start on the good points about the holiday! The people in Kalkan were all very friendly and welcoming. The restaurants we visited were all serving very good food and at reasonable prices. Everywhere was very clean and obviously the surrounding scenery is beautiful.
I was merely making the point that we were not comfortable with the owner coming to our table obviously drunk and smoking a cigarette. You would not behave like that in England and we would not have expected it anywhere to be honest whilst we were eating our dinner i just thought it was a little too much!!
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visitor, i thought your post was very diplomatic and could sense straight away that you had otherwise had a great time, not sure why anyone would think your post was rude?
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Welcome to EK
Have to agree Cosetta, Trish's book is very informative. I bought it when we were over last month.
Forgive me for being forward but I think it's a bit rude what you have written on a public forum - obviously you are entitled to your opinion but I think one that is of such a personal nature shouldn't be public. They have EK in Kalkan too - how will Trish feel if she reads this?!
Visitor has given an opinion and I in no way find anything at all rude in it. If I was in the same situation I would have politely requested her to put the ghastlty tab out while sat with me and if I felt she was too drunk I would ask her to leave the table or I would have to leave the restaurant.
I have experienced similar when in Turkey and have always found a polite I'm not interested always works but then I am well over six foot and built like the proverbial brick .....!
If you think that Visitor has posted something on a public forum of such a personal nature I don't see you complaining about the chap who has been named in the thread about staying alone at the Pirat - probably done his career the world of good.
However, that's only my opinion and I'm very, very entitled to it.
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Did not see anything wrong with first post - have held back from posting comments for fear of snide remarks from others - this is a great site BUT I am very wary of what I say!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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A more than valid point Anne.
I am very much of the same opinion.
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Why are you wary of what you say guys?
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Because there are people who post very snide and cutting remarks.
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PACHSU
Maybe you should cast your mind back a few posts (not on this thread) before being so sensitive. ;)
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I am anything but sensitive - but have felt from early on that this forum is only about positive comments - unless you are 'one of the boys' and can say anything you like
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???
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what's that reply mean ????????
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I am anything but sensitive - but have felt from early on that this forum is only about positive comments - unless you are 'one of the boys' and can say anything you like
That's a bit harsh.
I've not seen any evidence of favouritism on here - in fact, I've been rebuked a few times myself for going too far (although I never intended to cause offence). But each time, on reflection, I could see why.
Moderating a forum is not an easy task.
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PACHSU
Maybe you should cast your mind back a few posts (not on this thread) before being so sensitive. ;)
One thing I'm not is sensitive.
Regards the previous thread you highlight that is a classic example of what I'm saying about the snide remarks.
I have this great ability of being to the point and factual - some may say blunt and will treat idiots with what they deserve. That was a classic example.
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But on a more positive note:
I would like to thank this so called Visitor for introducing me to the wonderful book “The Road to Ruins†written by the lady at the Parc Restaurant. I purchased my copy yesterday and have at last found a book that explains the history of Lycia in both a humorous and informative way. This is a book that will become a well thumbed friend as I explore this wonderful region of Turkey.
I recommend it to anyone who wishes to explore the ancient sites in the area and who wishes to understand a little bit more about the lives of not just the main figures such as Alexander the Great but also the people who lived and worked the land in ancient times.
NB: I derive NO financial gain from the sale of this book.
As my old mum would often say; if you can’t say something good about a person don’t say anything.
Regards: Buster
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I think the key point here is to think first about what you might post on an open forum. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but it is important to sometimes reflect on what the impact might be of your comments especially if they aimed at an individual. I am not targeting the original poster of this topic but everyone who uses this forum.
With regards to the 'one of the boys' comment everyone is treated equally on the forum and the reason some posts do get removed over others is basically because of the number of complaints we might receive about them. As Martyn stated moderating a forum isn't easy.
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OK,if nobody will say what they are thinking,I will.
Just because someone owns a place doesnt give then the right to sit at a table with people that have chosen to eat at the persons place,drunk,smoking and trying to sell them a book they have written,no matter how good the book is,two people have probably been put off going to the place again,and they may have not been the only ones that night.
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Buster
Now that you have a copy of the book - please may I borrow it??
:)
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I thought the person complained about wasn't the owner. If you stopped going to bars on the basis that someone who had had a drink started talking to you, you soon wouldn't be going anywhere.
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One of the main attractions of this forum is the general positivity and lack of aggression often seen elsewhere.
At the end of the day this thread has created an opportunity for members to contribute to both sides of the debate and it has allowed for a reasonably balanced conclusion (I thought) to the point first raised. Surely that has to be healthy.
It is easy for a thread to degenerate quickly and the slippery slope commences as soon as someone is personal. Surely it is possible to post an alternative view in a respectful way?
Fidimax aren’t you being harsh, the poster is referring to a single (and with respect) alleged incident?
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The original post states that this person claimed they owned the place,I think going to a bar and talking to someone who has had a drink is a bit different to eating a meal and having someone sit at your table,apparently not invited to do so,who is drunk,smoking and trying to sell you a book !
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Hi Hummingbird,I dont think I am being harsh,just stating what are my thoughts on the subject,I know I wouldnt like it and I bet a lot of other members wouldnt either,the original poster was put off returning to Parc Kalkan,and now a lot more people who may have been thinking of trying PK might not bother,its not really a good sales pitch for a fairly new place,is it.
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If people praise a place - no one complains - however if they complain about a place they seem to be told that it is a personal attack and they shouldn't do it
Places etc have to be prepared to take the rough with the smooth
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Does anyone know if the said person does own Parc Kalkan ?
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I am always very wary of anybody who hides behind a pseudonym to make derogatory remarks about an individual. None of you have any idea who this so called Visitor is, or even if this alleged incident ever took place.
Yet you all seem quite prepared to pile in with your pseudo moralising. Without any thought of the anguish this is causing, to what is in all probability a completely innocent person.
You have raised the bar of debate to new heights which I doubt any of you will ever be able to get under again.
SHAME ON YOU ALL.
PS
Dear Kevin the cat I will swap you a copy of the book for four Pancakes and chi
Regards Buster.
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No problem Buster and maybe another Turkish lesson as it is spelt cay ;D
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Hi Buster,just responding to a post,I never mentioned any names,never preached about morals,but you seem to be saying that the post could be made up by someone using a name to hide behind,that could be said about any post on the forum,even yours,I dont know if "Buster" is your real name or not,and a lot of members use screen names,so are we to take all posts with a pinch of salt,I have replied to a subject which I would not be happy with if I was put in that situation,true or not,If anything I have posted is distressing to said person,I am sorry,but if true it might change the way they act with paying customers in the future.
Neil.
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Thank you Eniste but sadly I am not using a Turkish keyboard so its the nearest that I can get
That's also why your name is mis-spelt ;D
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Now you're just taking the p.... err ... m!ckey.
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For the record - the lady in question DOES NOT own Parc Kalkan - it is owned by Turkish people and she is a friend of theirs. I do hope that these posts will not deter people from visiting Parc - I have been many times and will continue to do so, it is a great venue, the owners and staff are friendly and polite and it is a welcoming place - the live music nights are particularly good.
I assume that as "visitor" is a holidaymaker he/she would be unaware that the lady mentioned would be so instantly recognisable to a vast number of Kalkan forum members and thus cause offence. I'm sure many reading this, myself included, would not want to be judged on the way we have occasionally behaved after a little too much alcohol and certainly would not want to be "outed" on the worldwide web!
There are not many bars in holiday resorts where you will not be chatted to at some point by someone who is smoking or has drank too much;there are even fewer where you will not be encouraged to buy something, be it another drink or a rose - a polite " no thank you" suffices.
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Excellent post Joules. I agree 100%.
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Ooooh,right,everyone knows this person so it makes it alright.
seems like a earlier post today could be true then ! >:(
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I didn't say it was alright - merely that it happens wherever you go, and it's probably unfair for an individual to be outed on a public forum (where she is known) 'cos she's had a bit too much to drink or for a perfectly good bar to be given a bad name because of an isolated incident which it was suggested was by the owner.
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Hi Fidimix
For the record Buster is known to the moderators on this site and I can assure you they no where to find me should they have the need:
Did it ever occur to you Fidimix that the person purporting to be “Visitor†may have an ulterior motive for their nasty little post and by posting their nasty little snide comments, new perfectly well we would all be aware of who their nasty little missive was aimed at.
For the record the lady in question is a retired Professor of Anthropology, she has written a fantastic guide to this part of the ancient Lycian Coast (The Road to Ruins) and anybody who would like to learn more about the history of this wonderful part of Turkey, when next passing the Parc Restaurant would do well to visit, have a chat with her and buy her beautifully written book.
She also organises a wonderfully crafted quiz in the winter months and runs Turkish History / Anthropology discussions.
I do not intend to comment any further on this debate, I feel it is on: The Road to Ruins.
No pun intended: Buster
Ooooh,right,everyone knows this person so it makes it alright.
seems like a earlier post today could be true then ! >:(
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I agree with Joules. I have felt very uncomfortable reading some of these comments. I have met the lady in question and she was very kind to me. I have also enjoyed reading her book and it has increased my knowledge and understanding of the area and for this I am grateful. I do not not think it acceptable that she has been humiliated on this site. I am sure we have all acted in ways we might have regretted in the light of day. There but for the grace of etc
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My point is being missed here,you are all gathering ranks against a new member to this forum,and as far as I can tell no one knows them,is this the way to treat a new member ? other new members get a "welcome" posted from you all,but because " visitor" said something which may be correct,about someone you know they are slated and basically called a liar,they are also being accused of having a hidden agenda and hiding behind a screen name. >:(
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Well said Fidimax it just proves that its OK for some people to pass opinions and even criticise but not others.....maybe all new members should have to pass an interview by the self appointed EK mafia that like things done their way and only their way.
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Err, I did welcome Visitor to EK.
I dont think Visitor has a hidden agenda but I do feel that to critisise someone on a public form for being drunk and smoking is personal and rude. Even if the person concerned was drunk and smoking - so what! There are worse things going on in the world to worry about and discuss!
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True Turkeyfan,but the original post was a report on kalkan as visitor found it,not a slating of the author of a book,I wouldnt think they even new the person
or if they owned Parc Kalkan or not,it was a thing they found uncomfortable.
If it had been a local turkish person who was said to have acted this way
would every one support them,I think not.
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Think we have gone a bit off topic now ;)
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Fidimax, why do you assume we wouldn't have supported a local Turkish person in these circumstances? I certainly would have and I'm sure many others on here wouldn't dream of discriminating by nationality, gender or anything else. I think this is demonstrated by my support of the Turkish owner of Parc whose trade may well be damaged because of the comments on this thread.
I think maybe it is you that is missing the point - it is unkind and unnecessary to publicly humiliate an individual who is recognisable to forum members.
Lets put it to the test eh? Visitor, I can perhaps understand why you posted your comments when you believed a restauraunt owner had joined your table and behaved in the manner you described, or when you assumed that the lady in question would be anonymous -but had you known that this lady was not the owner of Parc and that lots of people on the forum would recognise her, would you still have felt the necessity to post and been cruel enough to humiliate her on the world wide web?
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For the record - the lady in question DOES NOT own Parc Kalkan - it is owned by Turkish people and she is a friend of theirs. I do hope that these posts will not deter people from visiting Parc...
Far from it. This thread has brought the place to my attention. The Prof sounds like a thoroughly interesting character and the book sounds like a must read for anyone who gives an ounce for the area.
Directions to the Parc would be welcome :)
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Well as they say - there's no such thing as bad publicity!
It's on the right of the main road into Kalkan - just after Kartin supermarket and before BarBQ and Tesko roundabout. Tuesday and Sunday evenings are particularly good when they have 2 Turkish guys playing their guitars and singing.
I too can echo the positive comments regarding "The Road To Ruins" - a thoroughly good read and invaluable aid to understanding the culture, the area and it's history, and a Europeans experience of living in Turkey.
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Many thanks, Joules 8) Will try it next sunday.
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Good God don't some people get on their high horses?
Let me remind you of another post regards staying at the Pirat on their own where the poor guy gets named and shamed - don't see many people complaining about that.
Visitor has posted an opinion - respect it.
If it had been me, as I have previously said, I would have requested that the drunken smoking book selling prof sling their hook no matter how interesting the reading matter may be. There's a time and place for everything and clearly for Visitor it wasn't then.
I commend Visitors patience because I'm sure other people would have been a tad different with their handlng of the situation.
Because a few of you know this person it makes it alright? How pathetic is that?
Respect other people's views and space.
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Pachsu, are you respecting EVERYONE'S views and space? Because that's not how it comes across.
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Read your reply to Visitors post - you started it my friend.
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Can I ask you all a question? Have you ever had a few and made a nuisance of yourself? The answer to that question is, if you're like most people, yes. Have you had your wobbly night broadcast to all and sundry, more than likely no, but your mates will remind you for months. Let's keep things in perspective. :) OK the lady in question might have been a bit tired that night. It doesn't make you a bad person nor does it warrant this thread getting out of hand. By the way I don't know her personally.
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Well said Fidimax it just proves that its OK for some people to pass opinions and even criticise but not others.....maybe all new members should have to pass an interview by the self appointed EK mafia that like things done their way and only their way.
Misty
Please qualify! I find your comments above offensive! I would normally send a PM regarding your post, but let's get it out in the open. You seem to know so much about the way this forum is run why don't you enlighten the membership about how we (the self appointed mafia) run operations.
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As I have said earlier you are allowing other people to have a pop.
I do not find anything Visitor has written as being a "bit rude" or of a "personal nature" or a "nasty little post" or a "nasty little snide" or a "nasty little missive"
Again, as I have said before, I have previously hesitated to add comments because of the cutting remarks others make because of their one sided interpretations.
You have previously stopped me on a thread, and I apologise if I was out of order, but I will treat idiots with the contempt they deserve.
Visitor has commented on someone not being "tired" but drunk - there is a difference.
Perhaps we should invite Visitor to make a final comment?
Finally I would question why you or any other admin has allowed the comments made on the other topic I previously highlighted - staying at the Pirat?
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I actually dont know what 'I started'. I am not getting into slinging mud and I won't be posting on this topic again. I replied to a new poster with a polite response welcoming them but saying that I thought their posting was rude and I stand by that - I do think that its inappropriate to condemn people on a public forum - whoever they are - English or Turkish.
I don't know the person either - I have simply met her once when we visited Parc Kalkan last month but that is actually irrelevant.
If I had noticed the post about the Pirat at the time it was written, I would have also commented on it also being inappropriate for a public forum.
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I think everyone should relax, have an Efes and realise its Friday night ;)
The Godfather ;D ;D ;D
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I think everyone should relax, have an Efes and realise its Friday night ;)
The Godfather ;D ;D ;D
Indeed a very good shout - cheers!
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I actually dont know what 'I started'. I am not getting into slinging mud and I won't be posting on this topic again. I replied to a new poster with a polite response welcoming them but saying that I thought their posting was rude and I stand by that - I do think that its inappropriate to condemn people on a public forum - whoever they are - English or Turkish.
I don't know the person either - I have simply met her once when we visited Parc Kalkan last month but that is actually irrelevant.
If I had noticed the post about the Pirat at the time it was written, I would have also commented on it also being inappropriate for a public forum.
"Condemn" ???????????????????????????
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maybe they meant condom, as in put a lid on it! ;D
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Excellent!
Enough said on this post now as we are not going to agree so it's a goodnight from me................................
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... and it's goodnight from him :)
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I did not expect so much uproar from our post. We have stated our opinion and for those that do not believe that we were visitors in Kalkan would you like me to scan in our tickets and pasports to prove ourselves??
This may have only happened to us however, the forum seemed to be open for a reason so I merely posted our opinion on the incident that happened to us.
We realise now that the forum is not the place to be posting open coments and we will not be posting anything again after recieving some of the comments that we have recieved from this post.
Personally we will not be returning to Parc Kalkan, each to their own opion???
If the lady that came to our table doesn't own the restaurant and said that she did, would the actual owner not have a problem that she was claiming that she was?? Personally we would if staff or friends claimed that our restaurant was theirs in England.
I also stand by our original post to say that someone drunk and smoking at our table whilst having dinner is unacceptable. In a bar we would not have a problem obviously but whilst eating dinner we did.
The lady (I think called Trisha from what I can understand) we meant no harm, and merely think that hospitality in the Parc Kalkan should be addressed. Maybe we are the only ones to shout up about it or maybe we are the only ones who found Enjoy Kalkan I dont know. It was our opinion, we posted it and definatly wont make the mistake of posting anything else on here again.
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If you've got a view Visitor and want to share it don't hesitate to post it - I'm behind you 100%.
There was nothing wrong with your post at all.
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Hi Visitor,
Please do continue to post on EK, as with all forums there are a small minority of people who hate for people to disagree with their opinion - its amazing how people can be when they have a "username" to hide behind, im sure if everyones email address or name was on display the thread would be very different!
Have a quick view of the "fun guide to internet forums" it may be amusing and enlightening ;D
...... and here ends the thread :)
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If you've got a view Visitor and want to share it don't hesitate to post it - I'm behind you 100%.
There was nothing wrong with your post at all.
Me too Visitor,stick with EK,its not as bad as things seem !
See what has happened now,people are getting put off EK .
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Misty
How can you suggest new members should be 'interviewed'? I can think of two people that may have 'failed' that test :( You and me ;)
Em
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Well said Fidimax it just proves that its OK for some people to pass opinions and even criticise but not others.....maybe all new members should have to pass an interview by the self appointed EK mafia that like things done their way and only their way.
Misty
Please qualify! I find your comments above offensive! I would normally send a PM regarding your post, but let's get it out in the open. You seem to know so much about the way this forum is run why don't you enlighten the membership about how we (the self appointed mafia) run operations.
I would but I prefer my horses head on his shoulders and not in my bed ;) ;)
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Misty
How can you suggest new members should be 'interviewed'? I can think of two people that may have 'failed' that test :( You and me ;)
Em
Good point Em.... ;D ;D
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I might be wrong,but,I dont think Misty was suggesting the EK Team are the self appointed mafia,but certain members who gang together to back each other up and dont like anything posted about people they know or bars and eating places they use.
IMHO. ;) :o
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Bang on the money Fidimax..... :) :)
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I have enjoyed the Parc restaurant since it opened earlier this year. The atmosphere is warm and welcoming and the food is superb. However, the owner is not the boozed up lady with the cigarette but a very nice chap from Istanbul. The lady in question has been his house guest for the entire summer and has frightened off a few innocent punters.
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Hi,
Perhaps I should start a new thread on the subject of the Parc restaurant, which in my opinion is one of the best in Kalkan, although it only opened this year. The lady mentioned as the owner in a previous posting at the beginning of the Parc thread is not: In fact she is responsible for driving more people from the place than she attracts. In fact the owner is a very nice chap from Istanbul
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As a newbie to this forum myself, I have a certain amount of sympathy with Visitor. I thought her post was both interesting and balanced. I guess the subsequent posts indicate that there is a split in the audience here. Some view this forum as a self-serving club where any criticisms of the "inner circle" are hounded with undue vitriol and rather wild accusations, smearing the poster and obscuring the initial subject matter. Others view this as an excellent and relatively unedited opportunity to share experiences and recommendations. Personally, I think the latter is a healthier spirit and is more likely to prosper and benefit all contributors.
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Baggers good point well made...maybe there are several Labour supporting members on EK as they adopt the exact same tactics against anyone daring to criticise..... ;)
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Let's all of us stay on the thread (me included) or start another.
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This has become the longest post on restaurants, nightlife etc for over a year and yet I can barely see any mention on the quality of the food, service or ambience. The publicity has done for Parc Kalkan what the debate about weapons in Kalkan probably did for Mojito. There have been very varied but firm opinions expressed on here and accusations of mafia-like ganging-together against people who perhaps just happen to agree with each other. I very much doubt anyone will read any post on here and suddenly see the error of their views, a la St Paul on the Damascus by-pass.
As Jon said earlier, can we not just let it lie now? To carry on would be like Portsmouth's current season - there's virtually no point. (Sorry, Misty, but after our start last year, I'm enjoying the good start to this even more!).
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Portsmouth !!! We will still be in the Prem next season...we've been through worse..........Still can't believe Dindan missed an open goal... :(
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Still can't believe Gomes made those incredible saves - I hope our old boys can keep Pompey up too
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That's it now. :)