Kalkan Turkey Forum - EnjoyKalkan.com
The Owners Lounge => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lantana on September 18, 2008, 06:33:31 PM
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I teach English at the Jandarma in Kalkan. The Jandarma staff are all very keen to improve their English because they want to be able to provide practical assistance and advice to visitors and non-Turkish speaking residents.
Our classes are based on practical situations which they may encounter, followed by a discussion of the topic of the conversation.
Today we discussed burglaries. In the summer months, there are, on average, between 5 and 7 house burglaries per month. 80% of these take place in the late afternoon - between 4.30 and 6.00.. In the winter the burglary rate falls to a maximum of 3 per month.
The number of houses or apartments in Kalkan classed as ''tourist accommodation'' - where the burglaries always take place, is just over 2000. These dwellings also include properties owned by foreigners but not rented out, as well as those which are rented out and are owned either by Turkish people or foreigners. This means that during the summer months, in a six month period, there is a maximum of 42 burglaries. As a monthly percentage - which is how UK crime statistics are measured - this represents less than 0.5%
There have been No muggings reported in the past 12 months, nor any incidents of violent crime (where force has been used against a person). There has been no case of pick-pocketing or bag snatching.
Wallets belonging to 3 foreigners have been found in the street and handed in with all contents intact.
90% of the burglaries occur in villas or apartments where a window or door has not been shut or locked.
So the message from the Jandarma to forum readers is that Kalkan is a very safe place. The incidents of burglary are very low, despite anything to the contrary which has been posted on this forum.
In overall crimes (the total of all mentioned crimes), the US ranks the highest, followed by Germany, United Kingdom, France, and South Africa. Turkey ranks 32 out of 50 countries surveyed. (source http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes), so Turkey is 29 times safer than the UK. in terms of overall crime.
Let''s have some perspective on the forum. Kalkan is not a hotbed of robbery, it is , as it always has been a very safe and secure place where the vast majority of visitors or residents will never experience a crime of any kind.
lantana
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Thank you Lantana for that very measured and interesting post which reaffirms the view which many of us visitors hold whether property owners or not and which we feel in our guts but obviously cannot substantiate when faced with the some of the recent and repetitive postings to the contrary on this forum. :D :D
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Hi Lantana, I''d echo Felicity''s sentiments there. Thank you for showing that the situation isn''t as bad as many of us had thought with recent reporting. Provided some perspective/balance. Thank you. Bill
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Thanks Lantana. That''s great factual information - it confirms my belief that Kalkan is a very safe place, although obviously it is upsetting if you have experienced a burglary.
Nice to know that the Jandarma are trying to learn English - I hope they are managing to make more progress than we are trying to learn Turkish.
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Thanks Lantana for the information. Whilst I tend to agree with you that Kalkan is generally a safe place in terms of overall crime, the old adage is of course that you can prove anything with statistics.
The annual burglary rate in the UK as a whole is around 2% of all households (source Home OfficeCrime in England and Wales survey 2007/08). This equates to around .16% per month, or around the third of the rate in Kalkan.Factor into this hotbeds of burglary such as Nottingham, Leeds and London then the comparable rates for small towns would be far lower again. There would be an outcry in the UK if a small town had figures such as these with practically no action taken. So it may not be a hotbed for robbery, but it''s pretty high in the burglary stakes.
The problem being of course the Kalkan burglary rates affects mainly foreigners and no one really wants to know.
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Intersting stats lantana:
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Today we discussed burglaries. In the summer months, there are, on average, between 5 and 7 house burglaries per month.
90% of the burglaries occur in villas or apartments where a window or door has not been shut or locked.''
That means a maximum of 0.7 burglaries a month are forced entry.
Multiply this by 6 months this makes 4.2 forced entry burglaries per summer!
So as long as I secure my doors and windows securely there is only a 1 in 500 chance of being burgled
this is great news
Thanks lantana, I will certainly sleep more soundly tonight.
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I must take issue with the statement which Caradog makes - to paraphrase - he says that as it is mainly foreigners who are the victims of crime, no one really wants to know.
Who are these people in Kalkan who he says care so little? Where does Caradog get this fact that no one really wants to know.?
Certainly it does not apply to the Jandarma, they are very concerned. It is their role and responsibility to maintain law and order, they take that responsibility very seriously. Believe it or not, they actually care that tourists coming here are safe and have a good time. They also know that foreigners will make far more fuss than a local if they are burgled (as this forum demonstrates) and this adverse publicity has a negative impact on tourism on Turkey and reflects badly on how they perform their role.
His statement does not apply to local business owners, who recognise that adverse publicity negatively impacts on their own livelihoods. They have an informal network of watchers who keep an eye on strangers and look out for anything suspicious.
It does not apply to those who have influence in Kalkan at a local government level. Earlier this week we were at an informal small meeting where a potential mayoral candidate for next years election and some of his local supporters discussed the issue of crime and how foreigners can be protected (and they also expressed great concern over the taxi drivers issue)
Such throwaway statements as that made by Caradog are not only completely inaccurate they are also offensive to all the local people here who care very much about what happens to foreigners. Perhaps because they know that without tourists Kalkan will die - but that does not impact on the fact that they do care.
And finally, Caradog has an interesting use of statistics, since the government''s own report paints a rather different picture. The Home office report ''Crime in England and Wales 2007/8'' (http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs08/hosb0708.pdf) makes these points (page 6 if you want to look it up.) The figures are for the UK as a whole.
''Overall around 2% of households had experienced a burglary in the last year'' and ''Overall 3% of adults had experienced a violent crime in the UK''
So compare this with Kalkan and make up your own minds about whether or not this is a safe place where people do care what happens to foreigners.
Lantana
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Kalcamp
Isn''t it great that you can now sleep more soundly and also know that you can walk the streets of Kalkan, day or night, and not have to worry about being mugged, pick pocketed, assaulted, murdered or raped as you do in lots of other places in the world.
Kalkan''s very low crime rate should be celebrated from every ''roof top'' restaurant of Kalkan!
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Hi Lantana
Perhaps Caradog is referring to messages posted on here recently about burglaries. I seem to remember that people felt they got no help from the local Police at all?
Perhaps Caradog could expand further...
Em
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Thank you Lantana for putting all in perspective
We have lived here for 4 years now and this place is for me virtually crime free
Never seen a vehicle stolen
Never seen any street violence
Never heard of any one being mugged
Never heard of any sexual assaults
No gangs of youths hurling abuse
No vandalism
No children being stalked
No elderly people being harassed
No shopping stolen while you go to the toilet
No tossers ( don''t work won''t work ) begging on the streets
So all in all not a bad place is it ?
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Not a bad place at all - and I can''t wait to be there in a few hours!
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they have forcast heavy snow followed by hail stones and sleet !! ;)>:D
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Re: Villa burgled - 23 June 2008
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2008, 11:48:34 AM » Quote
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DB, you have my sympathy. You did all the right things and still they found a way in.
The silver lining to this cloud is the friendly and helpful response you received from some of the locals.
One thing that concerns me is your comment about how the Jandarma were not helpful. Please could you be more specific on the type of response you got from them? Whilst I personally have never had cause to call the Jandarma, this is a comment I have read on the EK forum many times, and I would be interested to hear from anyone who has any constructive ideas as to how this apparent unhelpfulness can be addressed.
John
This a quote from the feds, from the ''villa burgled 23rd June'' thread in the ''General discussion'' section page 3.
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Re: Villa burgled - 23 June 2008
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2008, 01:44:46 PM » Quote
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TheFeds
The Jandarma were not very thorough, only one officer visited the crime scene, clearly fingerprints where everywhere we thought that a follow up visit would have been made to gather more evidence, this never happened. We were summoned to their office for several hours to make a statement, via an interpreter and at one point they accused us of fabricating the crime and questioned why we had left so many valuables in the safe. We were told that CCTV was available nearby and they could check this to see what vehicles were in the area that day, however we found out later that the CCTV does not record and this was not possible. At no point did the Jandarma offer any advice or support or even the use of a telephone. There has been no follow up visit or contact by them.
And this is the reply from DB, the unfortunate person to be burgled on this occasion
possibly one reason why there might be a bit of negativity around.
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Can some one please tell me what the standard response from the U.K. police is to non aggravated burglary preferable from a former or current employee of the police and not a victim.
Can some one also tell me what they would expect the Jandama to do if they were to be broken into.
I would expect them to take an itinerary of goods stolen and give me a crime number for insurance purposes. What more can they do ?
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Lantana thanks for the reassurance that the Jandarma do care about villas and apartments being robbed but I wonder if you know whether they have actually arrested anyone or have any idea who is commiting these crimes? It would be useful to know if they are making any progress in catching these offenders?
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A quick look at my local daily (17th September) and I see reports on 1 murder, 2 stabbings, 1 child sex attack, 1 drug dealer bust, 4 burglaries, 3 assaults and numerous motoring offences.
Statistics not needed!
Anyway i never trust statics -eg 1 in 3 fatal car accidents involve drink driver, so that means 2 in 3 fatal car accidents involve people who are sober, therefore it is safer to be drunk when driving ! Poppy Cock!
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Lantana - thank you for taking the time to share this information with us. We had become increasingly concerned about what we might find next time we return to our villa having read some of the recent posts on EK. This information is incredibly reassuring.
John (The Feds) - I share your frustration! I used to enjoy lunchtime sitting at my desk with a sandwich and reading posts from others who love Kalkan as much as I do. I now believe that some members are determined to look for something negative to say.
Margaret
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Hoca..response from UK police to non- aggravated burglary? i work in a busy freight yard/container area on the south coast.We are a private contract company and often have incidents due to the nature of goods etc in the varous lorries and containers...often asylum seekers are caught in the backs of soft sided vehicles for which the last response time was the next day!!(not unusual!!)obviously they are miles away by then...the first thing the police ask is do you know where they are?We are not at liberty to hold people against there will. Some nights ago we found the rear doors to a building open and contacted the police..the correct proceedure was followed, as the door had been forced it was assumed the intruder had a crow bar or such item ..we were told by dispatch "wait outside, officers will be here shortly"several phone calls and 4 hours later we entered the building ourselves as no police attended.the intruder was long gone and thankfully all was in order except for minor forced entry damage.A later phone call was made to the police who apologised but said they were short of officers? i left for home after that and after coming off the motorway saw 3 police cars(2 occupants each) and 2 police motorcycles gathered round an officer with a speed gun!! Priorities right? ??? >:(
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Hi Villa Marni
I dont believe there are people who are ''determined to look for something negative to say'' about Kalkan, but there are people who are not happy about having to gloss over real issues?
In addition to this, just because someone has an issue that they want to talk about, like house burglaries, does not mean that they do not love Kalkan as you do?
Just my view...
Em
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I agree EM1
Lantana was very positive and informative, however I posted my ''story'' as we were a victim of a burglary in Kalkan in August and merely wanted to make other villa owners aware of what had happened to us with the hope that this would make them aware of a potential situation and take any preventative action they may feel required to protect their property. It was never intended to ''find fault'' with Kalkan.
I will admit that I am slightly nervous about going back in October but then again I was slightly nervous about being in my own home in the UK when our neighbour was burgled... it will pass.
My understanding was that this forum is to provide information which doesn''t necessarily have to fall under the category of dentists, swimming pools or maintenance charges! Correct me if I''m wrong.... ???
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Just thought you would lıke to know that thanks to the CCTV cameras that two offenders were recently traced to Fethıye and were arrested. I cant remember what the offence was and wont speculate. Suffıce ıt to say that the Polıce do work as does the CCTV that has been mentıoned before.
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At least it''s nice to see a debate around this. The Feds - you are right, I said it''s safe, but if you read the rest of the post I said in term of overall crime. As others have pointed out rates of crime generally (including and especially lots of serious crime) are far lower than the UK and lots of other countries. I don''t have an issue with that which is why I agreed with Lantana''s comments about overall crimes. I don''t happen to think though that the rates of burglary are lower. The figures I quote for burglaries are from the source I and Lantana subsequently quoted. I don''t know whether they are impeccable or not. I have taken them at face value as I have the figures for Kalkan.
I have no agenda whatsoever, neither do I relish accentuating the negative. if you look at my previous posts you will see that I also believe that there is far too much of that on the site. However, as Em1 points out I don''t think we should just gloss over things, and I tried to address what I saw to be statistics which painted a much better picture than actually seemed to be the case. Thanks EM1, we do "enjoy kalkan", own a property there and visit a few times a year. But burglaries are of an increasing concern to me.
Sorry if anyone has taken offence from the comment "The problem being of course the Kalkan burglary rates affects mainly foreigners and no one really wants to know" I will freely admit that this is not based on any scientific evidence but the impression got from people''s reports on this site.
I am pleased to hear Lantana''s comments that the Jandarma and others are very concerned. I will leave it to those unfortunate enough to have been a victim to comment on this aspect.
To sum up then, sorry folks if this has upset some of you. Don''t look for an agenda because there isn''t one. But long before the argument over "statistics" we had decided to bring an alarm over with us in October, and before you ask, yes we have one in the UK too.
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good evening all, just reading through the various comments on my first visit to to the website, have visited my relatives in Kalkan many times. I think that if you live anywhere on the planet, be it a mud hut in the middle of nowhere or a high security complex you will always find an element of dishonesty, it''s human nature. I can understand that if you are broken into then its very traumatic and the responses from the authories may be frustrating but they are the same the world over. I think if you decide to live in Turkey then you must accept the manyana turkish approach, this approach is for many part of the charm that drew you to turkey in the first place. I think posed with a choice of dear old blighty with its customer service charters etc and true turkey I would take the latter xx
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If you want to improve overall security - if you feel the need - then why not sıgn up to the CCTV system and allow ıt to be properly establıshed. Its a one off payment of 100 pounds. Hardly a lot. İts been proven to work and ıt wıll be extended as the town grows - whıch it is due to over the next 25 years (İ have it on good authority).