Kalkan Turkey Forum - EnjoyKalkan.com
Travel and Accommodation => Flights and Travel => Topic started by: sunlover on August 01, 2008, 10:34:59 PM
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We are going to Kalkan on 11th August, flight at 12.00 noon, so by the time we arrive and get through airport it will be getting on for about 8.00pm if we are not delayed. We have hired a car but now after hearing reports about the drive from Dalaman to Kalkan we are wondering if we should have a transfer, there are five of us. What is the drive like, especially if it is dusk getting on for night. We have hired a car but will we actually need one, want to do a bit of sight seeing, Patara Beach etc. is it easy getting about. Our villa is by the Samira Apartments so will probably need a taxi to local beach. Cant wait to get there, it will be a long day as we have to leave home at 6.00am and think the drive at the other end might be a bit much.
Any help, thanks a lot
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Hi
The drive from Dalaman is fine. Driving in Turkey is very pleasant after the busy roads in the UK. Members have suggested you drive a little slowly for the last few miles - but then you would naturally do that if the road had just been laid and you could see loose gravel on it?
Give it a go! ;D
Em
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If you''re near the Samira you''re right in the centre of town and wouldn''t need a car to get to the local beach. If however you''re near the Samira Deluxe then that is a bit further out.
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Without wishing to be alarmist, your instincts to take a transfer rather than drive are right. Driving at night in Turkey can be very dangerous. We personally know of five people, experienced drivers, killed in night time traffic accidents here. You will be contending with an unfamiliar road, tiredness, possibly a few drinks on the plane. You will encounter a road which is unlit. There will be vehicles travelling without lights, those that do use lights almost never dip them when approaching oncoming traffic. The journey is over 100 kilometres, a long way to maintain your concentration.
To give you an example of what you may encounter, in the past ten days here, a very experienced driver was involved in a serious accident when a lorry travelling in the opposite direction, attempted to overtake on a blind bend, causing a head on collision. At the beginning of the week, a local restauranteur was killed when his car went off the road late at night .
To put things in perspective we have driven thousands of miles in Turkey in the last ten years without mishap but we have had dozens of near misses, which have been caused by incidents which you would never experience in the UK and so would be totally unprepared for here - the worst of which was a car doing a U turn on a motorway and heading at speed towards us in our lane. We survived to tell the tale but we are very, very cautious about driving at night and always have a transfer if arriving at Dalaman at night.
Lantana
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Hi
I am sure any reasonable person would not consider driving while tired...let alone after a few drinks! Most people in the UK may consider one drink before driving, but a few?? I am shocked that anyone would even consider writing someone may drive after a few drinks.
A trip of some 65 miles or so is what many people in the UK drive to and from work each day, often on unlit and busy roads; it is not a long way. In the UK we have people who drive without any care for anyone else, overtaking in an unreasonable manner, causing accidents. In fact we have a TV programme dedicated to showing us these people roaring around our streets and the potential danger these people cause. However people still get back in their car the next day, as experienced drivers can cope with these issues on most occasions.
Accidents happened everyday on the UK roads, and no one says anything, but when one talks about driving in Turkey people get alarmist! I drive many miles each year, and see mishaps nearly every week, with the amount and stupidity of people on the roads.
Admittedly you sometimes see people driving (or riding) in Turkey on the wrong side of the road, but you do in Italy and France too! If you are a careful driver, driving at a moderate speed, you can easily spot these people and simply go around them.
I have driven along the coast of Turkey many times, which is where the original post stated the car would be used. It is my opinion that driving in Turkey is a synch compared to the UK and much of Europe, and alarmist views are simply just that.
Em
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If you use a car hire company in Kalkan, they will pick you up at the airport, drive you to Kalkan and leave the car with you.
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After reading that i would be worried about coming to Turkey let alone driving, the road from Dalaman to Kalkan and further round the coast is fine, yes there are crazy drivers but as its been said you get that anywhere but at least you''ll be in control, I''ve had some very scary transfers,
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Driving in Turkey is usually easier than in the UK as there is usually so little traffic about - and if you are sensible and assume that ever other driver on the road is going to do something foolish you will be OK.
Fortunately most of the main roads are very good and wide which helps
However there are hazards which you usually don''t get in the UK - sheep on the road - fallen rocks etc but just drive sensibly and you won''t have problems
Driving at night can be a little unsettling - but again just take it easy - but as Em says getting off a plane in the middle of the night after you have been awake most of the day before - had a few drinks on the plane - strange car - fractious children maybe - driving on the opposite side, on unlit roads which you may not be familiar with and Turkish "hazards" all present problems and it is a long journey!!
So if in doubt don''t do it - but Turkey is no different in that respect to lots of places abroad
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Sunlover
I would strongly recommend get a transfer the road isnt sign posted and lit as you would have in the UK, the first few miles are very confusing and you will think surely this cant be the right road etc etc as there are a few ''B'' road sections of the D400. Driving in the day is far easier. transfer companies in Kalkan such as Adda, Abi and Enes are all reliable.
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The road to Kalkan is not a white knuckle ride, if you can drive in the cities in the U.K. you can drive here with no problem. There are no towns to go thru,(just a couple of villages) there are only two right turns and on the whole the roads are brilliant, there are reflective markers on the side of the road all along the route which in the dark work well at indicating the route there are also chevron boards at virtually every bend.
The scariest ride I ever had was when we actually had a a transfer, we have been 12 times during the last 3 years and I have driven every time since that first trip.
Having your own car is very worthwhile it gives you such freedom, relax and enjoy!
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We drive from the airport everytime and consider the roads very good. My husband doesn''t speed and as others have said he assumes people won''t give way, may be a bit unpredictable and keeps his eye on anyone joining from a side road. To be honest we have seen much worse drivers in England and abroad than in Turkey. We consider the road from the airport is simple and well signed with only I proper turn to the right after Fethyie and doesn''t go through the middle of any busy towns and cities.
My husband doesn''t drink on the plane or in the airport and is an experienced driver. If it is your first time driving abroad it probably isn''t a good idea to pick up a car as it is going dark and so a transfer by a Kalkan firm and then hiring a car may be the safest bet but will be more expensive, someone may do you a deal.
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Hire a car at Dalaman. The drive to Kalkan is fine, even at night. Just be carefull, don`t speed and relax. You will probably only encounter maybe 30 cars on the D400 anyway.
Jav
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Thanks for all your replies, after reading them, we have decided to drive ourselves, although there were some mixed reviews. My Husband has driven in Spain, USA, Cyprus and covers thousands of miles in the UK each year. (I personally would not even think about driving in a foreign country, just driving on the other side of the road would be too much for me) so he is quite experienced. He would not drink on the plane if he knew he was driving aftrewards, like one of the replies said, some of the drivers transferring you are quite scary. We will take it easy and hope for the best. Thanks once again, we will report back on how we got on.
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Sunlover, if everything goes on time, you will most likely be nearer 7pm than 8pm leaving the airport. In June this year, our flight was 11am and we were slighly delayed but were still through the airport at Dalaman by 6pm. Most of your journey won''t actually be in the dark.. :)
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Without wishing to be alarmist, your instincts to take a transfer rather than drive are right. Driving at night in Turkey can be very dangerous.
I echo Lantana. Don''t drive at night.
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One word of warning, it is highly likely that your hire car will NOT have any fuel in it, this is normal practice here and you will need to fill-up as soon as you can. Be prepared for VERY expensive fuel too, around 3.5 lira or 1.5 pounds a litre (ouch). It costs us abou 80 pounds to fill-up our modest Peugot 307! On the plus side there will be a petrol pump attendant and probably someone to clean your windscreen!
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I echo Lantana''s advice. The difference between driving here and the UK is here in Turkey you need to be aware of what everyone else is doing! As careful or good a driver you may be you can not compensate for vehicles appearing from no where, overtaking on bends or driving in the wrong direction without lights.
After a long flight, maybe an unplanned delay to add to your stress you would be best to take a transfer/ driver for your hire car.
And Em1, whilst you may not wish to believe it many people believe there are very lax drink driving rules here and it is therefore ok. Beware they do breathalyse.
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Hire a car and drive, its no worse than anywhere else in Euroland, just take your time and relax and no harm should come to you, the roads are really quite good and well marked and for most of the journey very wide, so easy for the madder drivers out there to over take you, after all your on holiday, no need to rush, that''s what you are getting away from.....isn''t it ! ! !
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The quote ''it''s no worse than anywhere else in Euroland'' is, I am sorry to say completely incorrect.
A recent survey (2007) carried out by one of Turkey''s most prestigious universities found that drivers in Turkey are 11 times more likely to be involved in serious road traffic accidents than drivers in any other country in Europe, including the UK.
Based on the number of cars on the road, the same survey found that road deaths in Turkey are 4 times higher than in the UK.
For me, these statistics coupled with what I see every day are more than enough to keep me off the roads at night.
I may well be over cautious but I don''t believe in taking avoidable risks.
Lantana
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A Friend in Gocek offered to drive us back to Dalaman . He did like a bevy or two. I said,you cant drive when you have had a drop or three. :)
In Turkey,he said with a flourish,we drink,we drive,we don''t think death. :o
It was a few years ago but I have never forgotten it.And yes,it was said in jest,but I still am a nervous passenger whilst in Turkey. :-X
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A couple of years ago I saw a report that put the dangers of driving in Turkey in context, it calculated that a car driver in Turkey had about the same chance of being killed or seriously injured on the road as a motorcyclist in the UK.
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Hi Lantana,
Do you have any idea why Turkish drivers are 11 times more like to be involved in serious road traffic accidents? Does it have anything to do with the level of competance they have to achieve to get a drivers license?
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Hi
Reading your latest post Lantana, I decided to see if I could find any research to prove further what you said that "drivers in Turkey are 11 times more likely to be involved in serious road traffic accidents than drivers in any other country in Europe, including the UK".
I looked at the published data from the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe (UNECE), who I knew did large statistical surveys on this topic.
It advised (in the 2007 edition) that Turkey had a couple more road traffic accidents per thousand motor vehicles than the UK, however less than other European countries eg Austria, Belgium and Liechtenstein etc.
Luckily it also advised that Turkey and the UK had fewer persons killed in road traffic accidents per million population than many of our European neighbours eg Germany, Italy, France and Portugal etc.
Therefore maybe ''''it''''s no worse than anywhere else in Euroland'''' has some merit after all??
Am I right in saying there is ''statistics, more statistics and damn lies''?? ;D
For anyone who would like to look at the data in more detail (160 pages), to gather a more complete picture of this issue, here is the website address http://www.unece.org/trans/main/wp6/transstatpub.html
I wondered if we can now stop worrying visitors to Turkey, and suggest that if you feel confident to drive, then do. If you don''t feel confident to drive, perhaps consider taking a transfer?
Em
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I cannot believe Turkey has less accidents than Belguim, I lived in Belguim for a few years and was amazed at how well everone drove there compared to the UK. very orderly, relaxed and no middle lane hogging.
From a quick look at the report and the huge variations between countries, I suspect the data on accidents per thousand vehicles tells you more about how well different countries report and record accidents than your chances of having an accident.
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Wouldn''t it be better to say to people by all means drive, but.....
The roads are not always adequately lit
Turkish drivers are unpredictable
You can get a full license in Turkey without being a fully competant driver
The roads are often poorly constructed
many roads are poorly maintained and often areas of maintenance are left with inadequate warning overnight
Road signs, sometimes
Unpredictable debris strewn across the road
Headlights, sometimes dipped, sometimes full beam, sometimes flashing you for no apparent reason and sometimes not at all
tractors that crawl along without any lights at all
giving way on the roundabouts
turning left, do you turn left as you do in Uk or do you pull over to the side of the road allow traffic to pass then turn left, this is hotly debated along with other road positioning rules
In the event of an accident do British drivers know how to call the jandarme or fill out the accident report sheet
And I''m sure there''s one or two more differences from driving in the UK
I don''t care how good a driver you are you will not be prepared for the Turkish roads
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Having just read through this thread, I would like to add one aspect that nobody has so far mentioned with regard to using a transfer vehicle, which is also related to the earlier comment about the recent accidents that have occurred.
It is to do with the use of mobile phones whilst driving.
When I''m staying at my villa I use a very good local transfer company, very reliable, very good vehicles etc. I have also used other companies from time to time (when using hotel accommodation, it is included) and noticed that all drivers use their mobile phones whilst driving. Some have even texted whilst driving. I don''t think there are any laws in Turkey making it illegal to use them whilst driving.
The accident that happened killing the local restauranteur last week was due to him using his mobile phone. His relatives are almost 100% sure of this. (I was reliably informed by his cousin and a very close friend of his).
I will still continue to use transfers especially my own tried and tested company, but like everything in this world, we pays our money and we takes our choice.
In summary, I don''t think driving in Turkey is any worse than some other european countries and in the UK we''re not particularly brilliant with our road rage driving! Education is the key thing to progress.
Rosie
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Well said Em. If anyone is so nervous about driving then they should not hold a licence anyway, some of these replies seem to suggest that Turkish drivers are all psycopaths or morons! They are not! I too am an ex copper and have dealt with and witnessed the aftermath of moronic driving many times in the good old U.K. Truth is there is bad driving anywhere and as for unlit, poorly maintained roads? . . . . loads of them in North West England (and narrow!). 100% concentration required where ever you drive, if that is applied you may be able to avoid "the disaster" that awaits all of us everytime we get behind the wheel, or? . . . maybe go to Morecambe instead.
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Rosie, who was the local restauranteur killed?
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I too would like to know who the person was that was killed as I have many Friends in Kalkan who I am now concerned about.
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At the end of the day, if you want to drive then go ahead and drive, just watch your speed, be aware of the differences (in more ways than one) in driving habits, concentrate, and be CONFIDENT also watch the road conditions/surfaces.
Make sure the vehicle you have if capable of making the hills, as some of them seem to get steeper & steeper (just take Kalkan, roads where the goats used to graze !!!). But then again would you not think of all these things just driving around the UK or any other country. Oh & make sure your documents are to hand incase of any RTA''''''''s and in Turkey if unfortunate to be involved in one DO NOT move your vehicle until police etc arrive.
Why just last week here in the UK, whilst driving home down a good old country lane, sun shining, clear skies, I was nearly wiped out by a english driver trying to overtake on the narrow part with oncoming traffic, thankfully no damage or injury to myself or other vehicle, but the idiot did write his off after it went up the bank - now thats justice.
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I''d like to add my own cautionary tale to this.
I was waiting patiently in a slow moving traffic queue with the kids in the back (strapped safely in, of course) and looked in my mirror to see a car racing up behind me. He obviously wasn''t going to stop in time but I managed to yell to the kids to brace themselves. He hit us and pushed my car into the car in front, writing off my car. Fortunately no one was seriously hurt but it was very frightening. Afterwards he said, in very bad English, that he hadn''''t realised I was moving so slow - like it was my fault!
Then, in another incident, Grace (my stepdaughter) was the front seat passenger in a car driven by her friend late at night on a poorly lit (well, unlit actually) and very bendy road. Suddenly, round the corner in front of them some idiot came towards them at high speed on the wrong side of the road - luckily Kelly (Grace''s friend) had the presence of mind to swerve over the other side of the road. The other car glanced off the side of their car and spun around, crashing against a wall. The police said he died instantly. Grace ended up with just whiplash and a broken foot but was obviously very traumatised and it totally ruined her holiday.
So you really do need to be careful as you just don''t know what these unpredictable and stupid drivers will do.
Even in England, where both of these incidents occurred.
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That''s a great tale Martyn, I love the way you make a joke out of car accidents and at the same time distract people from the dangers of driving in Turkey, great I wish we could have more of that kind of humour on this forum!
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Ouch..... Martyn.....don''t rise to this.
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If you want to hire a car,hire one,but be careful and very aware like any decent driver would at home.
If you would rather have a transfer and have no need for a hire care, take a transfer,no worries.
Nuff said !!!!!!!!
Neil. :-* >:D
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Kalcamp, I don''t see how you think Martyn was making a joke...quite the opposite!!
You shouldn''t confuse irony with humour.
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**Warning**Irony Alert**Warning**Irony Alert**
I have decided I should put this alert at the top of any posts that might confuse some of the less... err... switched-on members of the forum.
Kalkan4eva and Chris18643, thanks for getting my point. Enough said! No rising to the bait is necessary, but perhaps a simple explanation might help...
Kalcamp - I don''t find a 19 year old boy''s death funny either, but - explanation follows, no irony alert necessary here - I was trying to point out in a rather dignified and subtle way (I thought) that there are awful drivers in England just as there are in Turkey and every other country you can think of.
The world is indeed a dangerous place, made more dangerous by idiots.
Did you see what I did there? ;)
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My father was a driving examiner for years and always taught me to work on the basis that every other driver on the road is an idiot and will probably do something daft and to plan for any eventuality. I have seen eccentric driving in many parts of the world and would suggest, despite the statistics helpfully provided by the UN, that Turkey is far from the worst place in the world to drive. That said, sad to hear of the accident involving a Kalkan restaurateur mentioned earlier - any more news would be most welcome.
I am finding this forum extremely depressing this week - deadly roads, crime waves, fires. I think I saw a locust just before we left!..... Best stay indoors. Any chance that we continue to try to keep things in proportion? I have said over and over that I fully appreciate how serious these events are and how distressing to those involved, but can we all calm down?
OK, off to do some irony.... sorry, ironing.
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Funnily enough I drive when in Turkey. How can you have a proper holiday without a car?
Thanks to the guys at Enes tourism, their Fiat Albea is faster than a Veyron. Fethiye in 50 minutes. Get on down!! ;D
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We manage to have a proper holiday without a car, but i imagine we all have a different idea of what a proper holiday is. :)
On the subject of driving in Turkey, i''m unable to comment as i have never done so.
We both drive so much at home and we like to use our holiday as a break from driving, healthy eating, moderation, clocks etc. ;)
The airport transfers we use from Abi are A1, as i have said before.
We have never felt unsafe when being driven by our transfer drivers.
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i certainly have a lot of different answers. I suppose it is like anything in life, different people have different views. I guess we will just have to make our own mind up from our experience and hope that we do not come into direct contact with any of the mad drivers on the road. I know i have been in other countries and been scared stiff sitting in the back of a Taxi and having no control over what they are doing, often holding phone in one hand cigarette in other and speeding and overtaking on bends. On one occasion in Gran Canaria on a coast road with a sheer drop, we were going fast, then there was a car in front of us so I thought "Good he Will have to slow down now" but instead he overtook it right on a bend, I thought that was it and we would be over the edge. So I guess there are crazy drivers everywhere and we will have to hope for best when we drive in Turkey.
Thanks for all the comments
Will report back hopefully when we return.
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Also i have just thought if a car was coming towards you at speed or doing anything else where there was no chance of avoiding an accident, it wouldnot make any difference if it was a transfer or your own car that was being driven. so long as drivers are aware as they can be of other drivers on the road. But if there is suddenly a car coming towards you from a blind bend what can be done.
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Ooooh, Sunlover, this exact thing happened to us two weeks ago when we were two miles from the Scottish border on the A68...and i can tell you there is nothing you can do. :(
MrB managed to steer us as far to the left as he could without taking us through the crash barrier and dropping into a field.
The instigator tried to sneak between us and the two cars he was overtaking on a blind bend...he ended up writing off his car, one of the cars he was overtaking and causing thousands of pounds worth of damage to our car.
All we can do is try our best to keep ourselves safe, and hope that in doing so we keep others safe too.
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I too would like to know who the person was that was killed as I have many Friends in Kalkan who I am now concerned about.
Foreverkalkan and Lougie
The man that died on his way home from work one night last week was a chap called Tekin. He was not a restaurateur as such, he worked at the tea gardens at the end of the harbour. He called his wife on his mobile to tell her he was on his way home and would be there in 15 minutes. When he didn''t arrive home, a search party went out and his car and body were found within an hour. His car had gone off the road and there were no other vehicles involved, neither was anything found to be wrong with his car. The general opinion of everyone - friends and family- is, that he was making calls on his mobile, lost control and went off the road. His best friend has said he had a drink with him when he finished work that night, but he definitely wasn''t drunk.
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We manage to have a proper holiday without a car, but i imagine we all have a different idea of what a proper holiday is. :)
Sorry, Mrs B. No offence intended. I just need a car. Its a long walk to Kaputas :)
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I always drive in Turkey. I think the thing to remember is that Turkey is a big country and to get anywhere other drivers simply put their foot down, its exactly the same driving in France.
The biggest hazards that I have found are:-
1) Speeding drivers coming from behind and suddenly overtaking you. Keep looking in the rear view mirror far more often than you would at home.
2) Overtaking on bends. If they are overtaking you, back off and let them pass as they are better in front than behind. If they are coming towards you, again back off and let them in. Try and look much further ahead on the road and ''see round bends''.
3) Beware of poor road surfaces. The roads do not seem to be swept and there are areas, especially at the sides where there is loose grit and dust. This will adversly affect your braking and control in an emergency situation. Particularly, beware in Kalkan at the road works by the Bus Station.
4) The heat in Turkey in the middle of the day in particular, melts the tarmac topping on some roads, this will again affect your braking and control.
5) The hills in Kalkan are extreme. If you have to brake suddenly when you are going downhill you will simply keep going for a far longer distance than you would on the flat, its similar to braking on ice. Leave a bigger braking distance than normal.
6) Roundabouts are a bit of a ''challenge''. It seems that vehicles entering the roundabout have the right of way ie: give way to the right. In reality, there does not seem to be any common sense and they are a bit of a free for all. So, take a roundabout very slowly, be prepared to make an emergency stop and give way to all other vehicles. In particular watch out for small mopeds and motorbikes as these seem to just go straight through.
7) Check your hire car throughly at the airport. Make sure you make all the necessary adjustments before you set off. Then, before you even leave the car park, test the brakes.
8) In the event of an accident you must leave the car in position. Do not move it out of the way.
9) If you are driving at night, be extra cautious and try and look even further ahead on the road. Keep your headlights clean.
10) If you have not driven on the ''other side'' of the road before, then I would not start with a drive from the Airport to Kalkan. Get some experience nearer to home in say France. Or just rent a car for the day when you are in Kalkan.
11) If you have family with you make sure everyone is strapped in and that the kids are on their best behaviour, you do not need distractions of the kids fighting when driving a new car in a strange place.
In general, I have found the standard of driving in Turkey to be OK. The roads are empty compared to the UK and as such people can speed easily this is particularly so later at night. There is a lack of road markings, compared to the UK, so use common sense. The road from Dalaman to Kalkan is wide and easy to follow, just keep a steady pace, concentrate and stay alert.
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Do you mean the Fener bar, with the ice cream stand and the lighthouse at the end, in front of Korsan, Deniz and the Kebab House? Always found them really nice lads in there, very appreciative of both of my words of Turkish. Very sad.
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Thanks Rosie for replying, it is very sad news.
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We manage to have a proper holiday without a car, but i imagine we all have a different idea of what a proper holiday is. :)
Sorry, Mrs B. No offence intended. I just need a car. Its a long walk to Kaputas :)
Ahhh, Blackpool, no offence taken at all....we all have different ideas of what makes a great holiday, and thats what makes us all diferent and interesting :)
Enjoy! ;D
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Tekin worked at the bar run by the belediye on the beach by the keep-fit apparatus.
He was on the phone to his wife, apparently, when he came off the road in Bezirgan just past the picnic/barbeque area.
It was 3am, and I heard he was drunk. They found him by phoning his mobile and looking for the light on it.
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Pete''s post is spot on. Just drive more defensively than you would at home. I was dreading having to drive back to Dalaman at 2.30 in the morning but it was no problem at all.
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There is an interesting article in today''s Zaman News about driving in Turkey.
Those of you with the Enjoykalkan toolbar can access it from there.