Kalkan Turkey Forum - EnjoyKalkan.com
Kalkan Discussion => Politics & Debate => Topic started by: hel66 on July 15, 2008, 11:00:17 AM
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Hi everyone,
My question is; what does the E.U and Britain mean when they say Turkey has a long way to go with regard to ''human rights?''
Turkey seems like a pretty happy place to me, the waiters are always friendly, the hotel staff have always got a smile for you, I don''t see any evidence of human rights abuse here. Is this just E.U. spin''.
Does anyone have any examples to shed some light on what is meant by poor human rights? and finally can any of this human rights stuff effect the British who live here or ar we protected by the U.K?
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Hi hel66
You could try ''Googling''.....Turkey human rights issue into your P.C, and read any number of articles on the subject. This is not to say all the articles are balanced and representitive, but they are out there in cyberspace to be read and to draw your own conclusions.
Hope this helps
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Hi
I agree a simple internet search on ''Turkish Human Rights'', would give you a lot of information, enabling you to make an informed decision.
Em
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I tried googling and there certainly is loads of stuff about it. I found it all a bit technical and difficult to understand
But I suppose none of it really affects Kalkan or the way we live here, so it doesn''t really matter.
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Hi
Perhaps a quick look at Amnesty International will show at least one side of the argument, in easier to understand terms?
It will not explain NIMBYism though...
http://www.amnesty.org
Em
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Hi Hel66
You say that you googled Human Rights and found it all too difficult to understand, and that none of it affects Kalkan and the way we live here so "it doesn''t really matter". There are two points in your statement upon which I beg to differ. The first point is that "none of it affects Kalkan". Presumably you didn''t read the Amnesty International report on domestic violence in Turkey then? You would have to be very naive to think that those things only go on in the rest of Turkey and not here. And the second point is that because it doesn''t affect the way we live here "it doesn''t really matter". You are entitled to your own opinion, but for me, these things really DO matter whether I''m faced with them every day or not. We can all fight for a better world, surely?
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Hi All
I like a good debate ,but this reminds me of a friend or ex friend i knew when he said he been to turkey and we got into a discusion, and i asked him had he seen the real Turkey not the resorts and Hel 66 answer reminded me of this.
so i take it Hel66 does not live here then, sorry to go off topic i am just amazed, there seems enough topics on this forum to start with.
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Anyone picked up on the new law on alcohol that was introduced in May? That might impact on life in Kalkan if it''s enforced... have a look at http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/may/16/turkey.islam
ps sorry I can''t make it into a hyperlink but if you google Turkish laws on alcohol it will come up with this article - it''s unbelievable.
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As usual, a little more information is needed before conclusions are drawn. In Britain there are all sorts of laws on the sale and consumption of alcohol, most of which do not cause astonishment in the drinking or non-drinking public.
This law is not aimed at licensed bars and restaurants, it is aimed at small shops (Bakal''s) which sell alcohol. In many towns and cities, these unlicensed premises frequently sell alcohol by the glass, setting up a couple of tables inside or on the pavement, so by default, becoming bars.
The act is aimed at stopping this by preventing unlicensed premises serving alcohol by the glass. If you went to your local corner shop in the UK you would not expect to be able to buy and drink a glass of wine or a beer on the premises.
It will not impact on the tourists life in Kalkan.
At the moment for those of us who live here, there are far greater things to worry about than whether or not we can buy a glass of wine.
Lantana
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It was the potential impact on those whose livelihoods depend on trading that I was thinking more of.
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Wonderwall has made a very valid point. We are all part of humanity. All actions carried out by human beings have an impact on other human beings. All the great humanitarian changes in history have come about because of the actions of those who did believe that it was worth fighting for a better world.
Human rights is an issue in Turkey, and believe it or not, Kalkan is in Turkey, it is not a Disneyland outpost.
Domestic violence affects 80% of women in Turkey. That means that a great many women here in Kalkan will be physically abused by their husband or brother or father or other male family member. So the happy, always smiling waiter you like so much may see nothing wrong in the physical abuse of women.
So the more society says this is wrong, the more examples which are set where violence is abhorred not applauded, the more hope we have that one day this will change. We can all have an impact, if only by behaving in a way which sets a different standard.
And for those who want to take the ''it''s nothing to do with me'' line, please remember that there are scores of Turkish human rights groups fighting for change and desperate for international recognition and support. If we hope to live in a fair and just world we need to work together to help create a climate in which fairness and justice can flourish,
Lantana
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Reygirl
The traders who are selling alcohol by the glass from unlicensed premises are breaking the law. Whether they need to do this to make a living is a moot point.
Unfortunately, by breaking the new law, they have put their livelihoods in jeopardy. This government is much stricter on the sale and consumption of alcohol and this has certainly had an impact on the lives of many drinkers but a huge number of people in Turkey do not drink and 47% of the Turkish population voted for this government, knowing where they stood on issues such as alcohol.
Lantana