Kalkan Turkey Forum - EnjoyKalkan.com
The Owners Lounge => General Discussion => Topic started by: MartynE on August 14, 2013, 01:23:18 PM
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Conversation with an apartment guest this morning...
Guest "our air con unit leaked water last night"
Me "sorry about that"
Guest "all our towels are wet now because we put them on the floor to soak it up"
Me "ok we will replace your towels. The leak was probably caused by condensation. Did you run the air con with the windows open last night?"
Guest "yes"
Me "ah, that's why then. Did you see that notice on the wall right by the aircon remote control? It says not to leave windows open when the air con is on, as it won't work properly especially when the outside humidity is high"
Guest "yes, we saw that. Can you make sure it doesn't happen again please?"
Me "no, but you can"
Jeez.
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oooooh Martyn haven't you heard? The customer is always right :angel:
Why would anyone have the aircon on and open the windows...?
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oooooh Martyn haven't you heard? The customer is always right :angel:
Why would anyone have the aircon on and open the windows...?
No comment ;)
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For the same reason they prize the electrical key card off the key ring, switch on all the air-con units and go out for the day!! :(
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Exactly. Obviously the same people. No regard for the planet, clearly....
I wonder if they realise each aircon unit consumes the same power as a two-bar electric fire... would they go out and leave three of those on in their house all day? Totally selfish and irresponsible :o
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sadly there is a mentality amongst some people that if they are renting somewhere they need to get "their money's worth" :P That means leaving the aircon on all day whislt they're out so its cool the minute they walk through the door....even though it takes seconds to kick in ::)We've spoken to people who do this and I've asked the question, if you were paying for the electric would you still do the same? and their answer is, without exception and unsurprisingly, "no".
So perhaps that's your answer, owners, install electric coin meters if the key fob doesn't work.
I don't know how people can be so irresponsible and selfish...really, I don't.
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Why not if they try to book again refuse the booking?
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Why not if they try to book again refuse the booking?
Already have! ;)
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For the same reason they prize the electrical key card off the key ring, switch on all the air-con units and go out for the day!! :(
It's my first season renting out my apartment, and following advice from other owners, I've had one of the energy saving systems installed. Time will tell if this little wheeze works but I have put the door key and electrical card on the strongest keyring I could find, and had it welded together so that neither can be removed from the ring and used independently. I also installed a key safe outside the front door which has been useful in situations where guests claim they need a second key/card to give them the flexibility of members of the party returning to the apartment at different times. (Providing a second key/card would of course render the whole system pointless).
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Hi Christina,
You have adopted the system I already have in place. Unfortunately, a small minority of renters seem to regard this as a challenge and literally jemmy the key ring apart (wrecking the key ring in the process).
It seems this is just an integral part of renting out a property ::).
Just yesterday, a twin curtain rail was found ripped off the wall by my villa manager. The guests in residence denied all knowledge, so obviously it must have been the gremlins.
It is a source of some amazement and sad amusement to me what people will do and say to avoid their responsibilities when renting a property. :(
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I obviously have some real rogue guests in residence at the moment. My villa manager has just informed me (complete with pictures) that they put the hose in the pool, turned it on and went out. As a result, the the reservoir tank has overflowed into the depot/pool room, flooding it to a depth of some 150 mm and diluting the chemicals in the pool severely, not to mention the waste of a considerable amount of water.
Any suggestions as to what I should do now. I am worried that if I lodge my concerns, they have the potential to cause complete mayhem based on their performance to date and I don't think it is fair to expect my Turkish manager to challenge them.
By contrast, many of my guests have been great. The essence of renting is based on trust. The guest trusts you, as the owner, to the extent that they pay the rent and hope the villa is there and as advertised. The villa /apartment owner trusts guests with their pride and joy, hoping they will not trash the place.
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Can't understand the mentality of some people, you'd have to go some to wrench a curtain pole off the wall!
If I was lucky enough to own a villa/apartment I don't think I could bear to let it out (other than family/friends).
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Apparently, the pool pump and the emergency water pump were just saved from water damage, which would have been very costly and deprived the guests of use of a clean pool or emergency water in the event of an emergency.
What were they thinking of???
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Chris S Probably best to take note and photos of all the damage they have done and present them with the bill for repairs when they get back. Obviously they will not pay up but at least you have the right to retain their damage deposit and let them know they will not be welcome again.
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Hi Kalkanbelle,
I have not taken a damage deposit so far (4 years) as I have tried to rely on good faith, etc..
To date, there have not been too many difficulties and guests have been very good on balance.
Perhaps I am naive and will have to alter my approach but I am always conscious of the minority spoiling things for the many, and tend to resist the temptation to react to these isolated incidents.
As such, I suppose it is my own fault and shouldn't complain, but it helps my psyche to vent my spleen now and again.
I apologise to the forum in this respect.
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We tended not to take a damage deposit but after a few incidents, one very costly, now I insist it be paid together with the balance before the guests arrive. For the AC costs, raise the rent enough to cover the cost of running your ACs all day. I did and it worked even better than I expected. It did not cause a loss of a single rental.
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As a 'renter' I am amazed at some of the reports on here about how guests treat your properties, I am always so worried about causing any trouble/damage when I am renting. I treat the places probably better than I do my own home!! I hope that the good out weighs the bad for all of you and that what I hope is few bad eggs do not ruin it for the rest of us who do have a sense of responsibility and actually common courtesy and manners.
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I'm sure that the majority of our guests have enjoyed and respected our villa however I am glad that I cannot be a fly on the wall to witness them, it would break our heart to see the few who simply don't care, such as the ones who spilled nail varnish on our newly laid travertine pool terrace (in two places), the one who somehow managed to burst a canvas beanbag chair, the one who badly scratched the coffee table top, the ones who didn't bother to put the (supplied) pool towels on the sunbed cushions therefore staining them with oil.
Accidents do happen and A/C is sometimes gets used a little too casually, this we have to accept, we should remember there is expenditure as well as income, it's a business like any other but I have always believed fair play should be a two way street, we do our best to provide the dream holiday experience, sadly it is not always appreciated.
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We were told that the electric meter is read before and after our stay and if it was felt we had over used then we would be charged . This was in the villa information . It made us think .
Lynne T
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Teenage girls are the worst.
Nail varnish everywhere, blobs of mascara (or whatever they use) and lipgloss over towels, yellow stains from p20 all over sheets.. these we expect. However we are now very reluctant to have any single sex groups since our last incident.
A couple of airhead girls put some eggs in a saucepan, obviously intending to have boiled eggs for breakfast. Then, no doubt in an alcoholic daze from the previous nights antics (judging by the empty vodka bottles) they forgot all about breakfast and went down to sleep off their hangovers by the pool.
Luckily our cleaner was going in that day. She found the kitchen cupboard soaked with boiled-over water from the egg pan, and the (by now rather hard boiled) eggs were smoking in the dry pan and would have set the smoke alarm off if the girls hadn't taken the battery out the previous day when they burnt their toast. Another few seconds and we would have had a fire on our hands.
They did give us a nice review on trip advisor though...
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One of the funniest things that we have heard from some owners near us, was that they were asked for an extra blanket from their renters, as they were too cold with the air-con running all night at 18 degrees!!!
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One of the funniest things that we have heard from some owners near us, was that they were asked for an extra blanket from their renters, as they were too cold with the air-con running all night at 18 degrees!!!
hahaha yep, we have had that as well... as recently as June this year actually, when it was really hot! It is real fun trying to think of suitably sarcastic comments a a time like that. I think I said... "yes we can provide an extra blanket but we don't want to make you too warm, do we.... after all, the aircon won't go any lower..."
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Its horrid to hear of guests behaving this way, in the main I think most people that rent are respectful, but it is always a worry, and we like others accept that accidents will and do happen. We have had some who have not been respectful of our home, but also many lovely guests, who even apologised for just breaking a glass. These are ones you always hope will return.
We always take an accident deposit cheque and do not rent to young single sex groups, not just for our sake but also our neighbours, as in the last apartment we owned our neighbours once had a group of young girls in, and they were a nightmare! but there only so much you can do to vet people before they go and a lot does go on trust.
Perhaps we could pm each other, if asked, on guests that have caused serious damage? just a thought. As if I had problem ones, I wouldn't want other owners to suffer.
Isis
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The answer is simple. To ensure you only attract the standard of guest you want, just amend your ad and Ts & Cs to include " STRICTLY NO RIFF RAFF
You're welcome.
pw
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Couldn't agree more! ;D
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I agree, Isis, the vast majority of our guests are absolutely lovely people; they take great care and will do things like buying a whole new set of glasses just to replace one broken one... which is certainly not expected, but very much appreciated.
But as always, it's the exception that proves the rule. The occasional nightmare guest stands out much more in our memories, because most people are so lovely that we ind of expect everyone to be the same, so it's a real shock to the system when the worst behaviour surfaces! I'd say it's only about once a year that something bad happens, out of a total of around fifty or sixty guests overall... so that's not a bad average really.
Your idea of a kind of early warning system - a neighbourhood watch for owners! - is quite an interesting one. I wonder if we could make that work?
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This idea of a warning system seems very worthwhile.
In the event of a nightmare guest, just put a note on the forum saying something like 'guest alert' - no names - and any owner interested could request a pm.
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There really are delights in renting. It is a lovely feeling when guests write to say how much they have enjoyed staying in the villa. We can't use the villa as much ourselves as we would wish so it is a pleasure to share it with others. Also when first timers go to Kalkan and write to say how lovely they found it.
Of course having said that we have had some damage from time to time, mercifully so far fairly minor. We don't take a deposit and to date have not suggested guests make a contribution to pay for any damage. Just wish, though, that guests would always let us know (directly or through the local agent) when anything is broken. Hiding a burnt-out saucepan is an example. Even if we took a deposit we would be happy to put the minor accidents down to wear and tear.
Yes, like other owners we have heard that some guests will go out for the day, or by the pool leaving air con units happily whirling away.
Like other owners on this forum we have had some lovely guests and often keep in touch afterwards, exchange recipes etc. I am sure the majority of renters do treat their holiday home in Kalkan with great care but human nature being what it is there will always be some less careful. It would be amusing to compile a booklet of stories such as MartynE's and others on this this topic. Then owners could leave a copy in their accommodation to amuse renters but gently remind them of some things as sensible use of air con units.
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I have to say I would def be interested in a 'guest alert' early warning system, obviously with no details except via PM. It's v important to be aware of those that can cause trouble with either the property or neighbours.
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I think I know how you feel and we don't own a villa just rent. My "Twenty two" year old son has moved back in and I dread even coming home after even a weekend down our caravan just to see what he's done this time. Despite stringent rules set out something always happens and his housekeeping leaves a lot to desire. We are out next week for eighteen nights so gawd knows what we'll come back to so I can empathise with you all it can be very frustrating. We treat our rented villa with respect and would replace breakages. Maybe we go a bit over the top sometimes we wash sheets and towels while we're there and make sure the beds are stripped and the bathrooms and kitchen are clean when we leave, even though the cleaner comes in when we go, just hate to leave our mess for someone else. Just a pity it doesn't run in the family lol ::)
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PW - re "STRICTLY NO RIFF RAFF" love it, --- my oh my what am I saying as that counts me and my family out -- ha ha
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the thing is....who would ever think they were RIFF RAFF....? I'm pretty sure no-one would recognise themselves in that statement. Who would read that and say "oh that's me, best not rent that property then....." :P
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Actually, I can think of quite a few who would probably take great pride in describing themselves that way, in an inverted snobbery kind of way.. you know "weer ruff and reddy and praaaaaad ov it"
They would book just to spite us all... ;)
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The air con scam:
1. Go out via the patio door (left unlocked) so the key fob can be left in so the air con continues working whilst they are out; or
2. Ask for a 2nd key when they don't really need it; or
the best I've heard of:
3. Get a second key cut !
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I am shocked to hear of some things that people do when they rent......we have replaced glasses that have been accidentally broken and just generally take care as we are aware we are in someone else's home. We have asked for second keys the last few times we've been with our daughter as we don't keep the same hours :laugh: :laugh: and we have literally been given a second key......no card for the electric.....in fact we have then had lots of complaints when she has got in before us say, during the day and not been able to put the air con, it we forgot to give her the right key! Such honest renters!!
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The air con scam:
1. Go out via the patio door (left unlocked) so the key fob can be left in so the air con continues working whilst they are out; or
2. Ask for a 2nd key when they don't really need it; or
the best I've heard of:
3. Get a second key cut !
Just let them go home Denners ;)
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The air con scam:
1. Go out via the patio door (left unlocked) so the key fob can be left in so the air con continues working whilst they are out; or
2. Ask for a 2nd key when they don't really need it; or
the best I've heard of:
3. Get a second key cut !
Also discovered one (who regularly comes to Kalkan) who had actually bought a spare electrical key fob from the electrical shop one year, and then simply brought it with him and used it every time he came back. Crafty bugger.
Needless to say our electric bills were always VERY high the weeks he (used to) book with us.
Not any more though ;)
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Martyn, I have to say rough and ready does not neccessaritly equate to riff raff.....in my opinion :-\
I have seen riff-raffish behaviour from people who have come through public school and indeed the people we were talking to who go out and leave the air-conditioning on all day were from this background. Just saying...
They certainly wouldn't identify themselves as riff raff ::)......quite the opposite.
Conscious that I don't want to open a debate about what constitutes "riff raff" though....it will end up being hidden in EK cyberspace ;)
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OK, let's be more specific. The "Strictly No Riff Raff" policy can be extended to include:
"Hoi poloi
Ne'er do wells
members of the Great Unwashed
Hobbledehoys
Reprobates
Thieves (particularly those thieves specialising in Kilowatt theft)
Loafers
Louts
Libertines
Boorish oafs
Vagabonds
Wastrels
Cads
Bounders
Rotters
Cheats
Rakes
Incorrigible rogues
and
Eskimos (or others from particularly cold places)
and any other undesirable not otherwise specifically listed above (you know who you are)."
That should cover all the bases and ensure that no one over uses the AC &/or stains the linen
And if you are concerned about inappropriate table tennis you can instruct renters to refrain from wiff waff (unless you provide ping pong facilities)
So, to summarise: "No Riff Raff. No Wiff Waff. Decent People always Welcome "
Hope this helps.
pw
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Question: how does the electric key fob work if you have 3 entry doors and aircons on 3 floors? Does it turn everything off when they go out any door? Did anyone get this system here in Kalkan or in the UK?
We ask people to turn off the AC when they go out and tell them what it costs us per week, but I think they feel they have paid dearly and will use what they want. We did have young Russian renters who indeed got out wool and mohair winter blankets in early June.
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Question: how does the electric key fob work if you have 3 entry doors and aircons on 3 floors? Does it turn everything off when they go out any door? Did anyone get this system here in Kalkan or in the UK?
We've got it in our duplex apartment in Kalkan although we have yet to have guests use the system as hubby soldered a key onto they fob.....and then left it in the UK and we haven't been to Kalkan since! I'm saying nothing!
We have taken the fob out to see what happens to the electricity and in our apartment the sockets stay on - so the fridge doesn't defrost and a lamp can be left on, but the lights and the aircon goes off.
Are there any members who have used the Ecosense units for any length of time so they could compare this years electricity usage to last years?
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Next thrilling instalment.
This morning I received the following in an e-mail from the current guests :- "Unfortunately we have had a problem with the toilet in the main large bedroom. I got up about an hour ago to find water leaking from the cistern and was all over the bathroom floor."
The villa was built in 2008 and there has never been a problem with the toilets. I wonder why it suddenly started leaking last night.
Any guesses?
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Question: how does the electric key fob work if you have 3 entry doors and aircons on 3 floors? Does it turn everything off when they go out any door? Did anyone get this system here in Kalkan or in the UK?
We ask people to turn off the AC when they go out and tell them what it costs us per week, but I think they feel they have paid dearly and will use what they want. We did have young Russian renters who indeed got out wool and mohair winter blankets in early June.
Hi C.
we got it fitted by Benli, but it didn't work well, the slot for the fob became loose and the fob kept breaking contact so the electricity kept cutting off, in short it became too much of a pain so we had it disconnected again, the general idea is that as long as the fob is in place the electricity is there, when it is removed it goes off after a set number of seconds. It is set up so the fridge stays on and at least one light.
As already said there are all sorts of ways of fooling this system, even wrapping foil around a piece of card will do it, you don't have to be an Einstein to work out how to fool it!
We tried the ecosense units (both battery and mains) and neither worked 100% satisfactorily so we reverted to appealing to guests better natures, obviously some just "don't care" but as you said earlier you built in the cost to the rental, utilities are costly and what would be the next step? cutting the water off at certain times or after a set number of gallons per day?
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Well that was a handy guide! ::)
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Thanks M. I thought that might be the case. We couldn't use the Ecosense system anyway. We tried it but it didn't work with all our ACs. Next year I'll try mentioning to the renters the actual per week cost of running 6 ACs all day. They might be aghast. But honestly, it's only some renters, primarily those with teenagers, who go out and leave all the ACs on.
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We have 3 ecosense units. The first year we found no reduction on units of electricity used. Last year we reinstalled them and found a 20% reduction in units used, with the same occupancy, we think we hadn't installed them properly the first year. This year we only have 2 working as we couldn't get one to set properly in June so we will buy a new one for 2014.
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We have key fob cut-outs in three apartments and we are trying out ecosense 2000 units in another. So far it's looking promising with the ecosense, in terms of electricity usage compared to the cutout system; the attraction of ecosense being that it seems to be harder to cheat. We'll see :)
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Although I have lived here in Kalkan now for a number of years we have never entertained the thought of renting out what is our home.
Yet on the Forum those that rent out and they seem to be numerous always seem to stress the negative side of the deal and never the positive
The prevalent theme seems to be some damages which invariably seem to be few and far between, generally minor and seemingly because maybe of a lack of understanding of living in a strange house in a foreign country albeit only for a couple of weeks
Reading comments on here that "clients" are informed how much air conditioning costs [ in a bid to get them to use it sparingly ] is really strange - are they told this when they book the accommodation I wonder ? What is it to them , they have already paid !!
When you book a hotel do they itemise their costs in a bid to get you to maybe eat less breakfast, not to use the air-con etc I think not
OK electricity is expensive here, so if owners do not want high bills they have options - don't provide air-con or add the estimated cost + a little to the initial rental charge - so you have already recouped the costs in the rental price - easy or what?? Sometimes you would win other times you loose - or do they feel this might price them out of the market place?
I would imagine when "clients" book they do not want to see these restrictions they just want to have what they perceive they have paid for
Renters only rent out to make as much money as possible from their properties and I would assume that many of them make a very nice profit from doing so - and if clients incur then in extra costs, is it the costs or the loss of profit that people are going on about
Of course the bottom line is - if you are not happy with anything your guests do or use don't rent out !!
Hope that this is not too controversial - head down now though waiting for the flack :)
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Actually I'm so glad that you've raised the points you have and very well. I must admit that I've felt a little upset by some of the owners comments. We have rented various properties from apartments to villas and have never been told beforehand not to use them because of the expense. Obviously we have used oue common sense regarding the air con if present in the property but in Daybreak last year {one of Martins} we found the fans in the bedrooms just as efficient for keeping cool.
All in all the owners surely are in it for a profit and must know roughly and make allowances for guests who heaven forbid should like to feel at home on their holidays and pay their hard earned holiday money for the pleasure.
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Kc99... no flak from me, you make a very fair point. Most owners who rent out do so for a profit, certainly, and of course it is up to each owner to set their charges according to their expenses.
And Joycie...HI ;)... Yes, you are right that guests should feel they can use the place as if it's their home and not feel overly restricted. In our experience, most people really do treat the place with the same respect as their home; it's the ones who do stuff to our property that they would never DREAM of doing at home that we have a problem with.
I agree that in principle, owners should not complain about the cost side of the equation, as that only affects their profit and margin is a purely commercial consideration. However...
...everyone has an overriding responsibility to save energy, don't they? Even leaving aside the obvious green issues, surely Kalkan's infrastructure is fragile enough as it is (this isn't the place to get into the politics behind that!) without people deliberately adding to the strain by leaving air con on all day, cooling empty premises!
We also have a duty to ALL our guests to make sure they are treated fairly. Why should the selfish actions of a small irresponsible minority spoil things for the vast majority who act responsibly?
To use an an analogy: a pub seeks to make a profit by selling alcohol, but any publican will reserve the right to eject or refuse entry to someone who drinks too much, on the basis that they will become a danger or inconvenience to other users of the pub. Is that publican wrong?
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Also a fair comment Martyn. You know how much we enjoyed the experience of Sunrise and Daybreak and would never treat aproperty with disrespect it was just the thought of owners I guess being disrespectful as well to the people who make them their money.
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Yes, I understand. To be honest, the thread started out rather tongue in cheek - let's face it, it was funny - but, as always, each owner added their own experiences to the equation and it escalated into a bit of a diatribe against rogue renters! Which is a shame, because most of you are wonderful.
We've certainly never had any such problems from you!! ;D ;D ;D
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Right four weeks time we'll be in Kalkan and I think an Efes all round would be in order. Cant wait.
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I think renters should also factor into the equation that very few properties in the UK have air con for usually obvious reasons
therefore for some clients it is a novelty and they are not really versed in how to use it properly
Does your literature advise them to have it on at maybe 24 degrees ? as when they see that you can set it to 17 degress they think wow thats really cool and off they go
Perhaps education is the key and not start on what it costs to run or save the world ;D
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I was not going to comment further on this topic until I read the last few posts.
Can I pose the question - Who gains when air conditioning is left on all day at 16°C (or at any setting) and the property is then left unattended all day?
To answer my own question, The Tedaş and their shareholders I guess. Certainly not the guest, or the environment, or the property owner, or subsequent guests if, as suggested, the rental prices are increased to cover the costs incurred as a result of the irresponsible behaviour of the minority.
My definition of the mindless action of the minority to the detriment of many, with no advantage to anyone concerned, is vandalism, but I am sure someone will have a better definition.
If looked at charitably, this kind of behaviour could be put down to ignorance of the way air conditioning works. Air conditioners will not reduce the temperature of a room any quicker if set to 16° as opposed to 21° and, as has been previously mentioned, 16° is not a comfortable temperature for most people. As a result, air conditioners will struggle (usually unsuccessfully in ambient temperatures in the mid-30s) to achieve the set temperature causing excessive electricity consumption and wear and tear on the equipment. This charitable interpretation cannot be applied when equipment (key card systems, Ecosense units etc.) is deliberately interfered with.
Perhaps I am naive, but I request my guests to use the villa responsibly, including the air-con specifically, and I am delighted to report that the majority do so. Is it being suggested that we look the other way and ignore vandals wherever we come across them.
"Renters only rent out to make as much money as possible from their properties and I would assume that many of them make a very nice profit from doing so - and if clients incur them in extra costs, is it the costs or the loss of profit that people are going on about"
Don't you just love generalisations? Is there a suggestion, perhaps, that renters should run their properties as a charitable venture or not at all?
Personally, I am retired and rely on the property rental to supplement my meagre state pension, which enables me to live as opposed to exist, and I make no apologies for that.
I am sure some fortunate individuals have adequate incomes or are on index linked, final salary schemes or public sector subsidised pensions but I, and many others I imagine, are not amongst them. Personally, I saved for my retirement, my private pension scheme having been decimated in the 1989 recession (remember the ERM debacle) only to find that interest rates were reduced to negligible levels upon retirement. Hence the purchase of the villa.
Apart from the income, I derive considerable pleasure and satisfaction when I receive e-mails from happy and satisfied guests. The other benefit is that it enables me and my family to enjoy holidays in a beautiful place which we would not otherwise be able to afford.
Right. Rant over! :)
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Does your literature advise them to have it on at maybe 24 degrees ? as when they see that you can set it to 17 degress they think wow thats really cool and off they go
Perhaps education is the key and not start on what it costs to run or save the world ;D
Hi K.C. I'm sure Brits (and others from cooler climes) do have a problem completely understanding A/C s, we ourselves found out several years ago that we woke up cold during the night whilst in Greece due to us having set it too low.
We now advise guests that a comfortable temperature is around 24 to 26, however people probably think "well how does that work? we have our central heating on at 20" what they fail to take into consideration is that when the outside temperatures are 35 (plus) 24 feels quite cool and when C.H. at home is at 20 outside is probably 15 or below.
We once had some friends (English) who actually lived in Turkey at the time stay with us, they had a baby in a travel cot, the mother asked if I'd mind her putting the A/C on in his bedroom, I said of course not, she then set it at 16 degrees, amazingly she was surprised when I said "he'll freeze!"
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I think renters should also factor into the equation that very few properties in the UK have air con for usually obvious reasons
therefore for some clients it is a novelty and they are not really versed in how to use it properly
Does your literature advise them to have it on at maybe 24 degrees ? as when they see that you can set it to 17 degress they think wow thats really cool and off they go
Perhaps education is the key and not start on what it costs to run or save the world ;D
Yes, our literature says all of this. I would refer you to my very first post at the start of this thread!
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Having read through this thread, to me this rather typifies the way this forum is these days. Barring kc99, very few expats use this site as the truth about kalkan is too painful for the moderators, what we are left with is villa and apartment renters using the site as a great advert for their own profit. it's unbelievable that they should abuse the people who line their pockets because they want to come home to a cool room. It's like being told you can have one bucket of coal a day when holidaying in Scotland, or being told you must turn the central heating off when you go out it, I'm sure you all do and love coming home to a cold house in the UK!! The attempt to try to make guests feel guilty for the ecological problems of the planet, just because they want to enjoy their holiday in a way they choose!! Some of you owners should go and stay in a few hotels around the Med, in my experience they are always kept cool inside 24 hours per day, and generally the heating is kept on in hotels in Scotland 24 hrs per day also.
Let's hope for all villa renters that not too many people wanting to holiday in Kalkan read this particular thread!
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Quite the contrary Cheesecake, I hope potential future renters do read these comments. It is not that we owners either want or need to advertise here -- we can do that on ownersdirect or any other rental site -- we are sharing experiences. No one rents from this forum, people use the paid rental sites where owners advertise.
This thread has made me realize tonight that indeed some people coming from the UK may not know what is a comfortable temperature with AC. I simply never thought of this as I have never lived in a cold climate and am not British. Now I will add a suggested temperature to my guest info. We keep our aircon at 22-24.
The point here is that it takes about 20' to cool a room down to 22-23 after an air conditioner is turned on. So what is the point of leaving it on for 6 or 8 hours while you are away when you can achieve the same result in 20'? We turn off our ACs when we leave our villa and turn them on when we return. Aside from the matter of cost, it is also un-ecological to consume that amount of energy for no reason. Recently a British woman who rents out one of those glass and cement contemporary villas told me the AC costs her 250 pounds per WEEK ! Is that not a waste?
The majority of our renters over the past 4 years have been respectful and responsible. Some have not even realized when they might have damaged something. Damage is occasional but sometimes serious.
Would you be pleased if you had a piece of antique furniture in mahogany wood and found that someone put a hot cup of coffee on it which melted the varnish and left 2 white rings on the wood? That you now have to have the entire top refinished? And in a town that does not have anyone who does this work? Sometimes damage can actually almost outweigh the rent received.
Finally, Chris_S is right, as least as far as we are concerned. We do not rent out our main, personal home for the pleasure of doing so. Many people were burned over the last few years of recession. Many saw their pensions and savings reduced substantially. We are retired and our US social security does not begin to cover our living costs. Not even 50%. Many people here who rent their homes in summer and move into much smaller properties might be in this situation. I can assure you, it's not fun.
PS. If anyone reading this has skills as a wood restorer, be happy to pay you to remove these rings. Wood restoration products do not exist here, already asked. We have 3 pieces of furniture to restore.
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Cheesecake, I'm sorry but you are completely missing the point of this thread.
Firstly, look at the section of the forum it was posted in ... "Owners Lounge". By definition, it's not aimed at potential guests ... it's a place where property owners share their views and experiences. Non-owners are of course welcome to view the thread but they should bear in mind where it has been posted - it's not intended as a general discussion thread. Secondly - we really don't need to advertise on here. Ownersdirect, Holidaylettings etc are more than sufficient to fill our accommodation, thanks, and they get paid handsomely for that service.
The point is that while most of our guests are lovely, lovely people and totally responsible, a very small minority are TROUBLE and that's just a fact. Would you expect a car hire company to overlook wanton damage to one of their cars? Nope. Would you expect a shop owner to tolerate shoplifters? Nope. What's the difference?
Cosetta is absolutely right. We have no problem with guests wanting a cool room - that's why we install it, obviously - but going out and leaving aircon set at 16C with the windows open will NOT make the room any cooler than setting it to 22C for a few minutes when you come in. It just overworks the compressor, leads to breakdowns and shortens the life of the units (not to mention the complete waste of precious energy).
If it's an education issue that's one thing - but come on, most people have aircon in their cars these days and know full well that it doesn't work with the windows open! When you have also given written instructions about how to use it, have explained it in words of one syllable and have actually asked people if they have read the information notices and they STILL don't think it applies to them, it's pretty damn annoying.
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May I ask what may seem a very stupid question please ??
How exactly do most renters know which "guests" use the air con contrary to the way that the renters expect/ want or even demand that they use it
Do they or someone read else the meter after every visitor has gone and work out the usage, but having seen my bills I usually have no idea how the TEDAS calculate these things
Or do they rely on the monthly bills and pr-ratio it - but then how do they finger those perceived guilty people, who have used too much and therefore abused the ecology of the planet, taken cash from peoples retirement incomes because of low pensions or whatever .......?
If, as several renters seem to imply they only cover costs, an option may be to sell the property , put the money into the bank which was paying 8.8 % interest today - suddenly you have cash liquidity and a reasonably guaranteed income with no costs and no worries .....job done .....an option maybe worth considering
And please I am not getting at anyone personally or going against the MR polocy, but in a business this is how you would evaluate such things
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May I ask what may seem a very stupid question please ??
How exactly do most renters know which "guests" use the air con contrary to the way that the renters expect/ want or even demand that they use it
Do they or someone read else the meter after every visitor has gone and work out the usage, but having seen my bills I usually have no idea how the TEDAS calculate these things
Or do they rely on the monthly bills and pr-ratio it - but then how do they finger those perceived guilty people, who have used too much and therefore abused the ecology of the planet, taken cash from peoples retirement incomes because of low pensions or whatever .......?
If, as several renters seem to imply they only cover costs, an option may be to sell the property , put the money into the bank which was paying 8.8 % interest today - suddenly you have cash liquidity and a reasonably guaranteed income with no costs and no worries .....job done .....an option maybe worth considering
And please I am not getting at anyone personally or going against the MR polocy, but in a business this is how you would evaluate such things
K.C. I don't care who uses (or abuses) my A/C, it's there to be used, if people want to use it 24/7, then so be it, we make our villa available for rent and have to accept it, as I said it is A business and one must accept expenditure as well as income, all we can hope for is that expenditure does not way exceed income, thus we can afford to replace, repair or maintain as required.
Our place is now for sale, not because it is unprofitable but because we are ready for retirement and a lifestyle change and yes? 8.8% would do very nicely thank you.
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May I ask what may seem a very stupid question please ??
How exactly do most renters know which "guests" use the air con contrary to the way that the renters expect/ want or even demand that they use it
Do they or someone read else the meter after every visitor has gone and work out the usage, but having seen my bills I usually have no idea how the TEDAS calculate these things
Or do they rely on the monthly bills and pr-ratio it - but then how do they finger those perceived guilty people, who have used too much and therefore abused the ecology of the planet, taken cash from peoples retirement incomes because of low pensions or whatever .......?
If, as several renters seem to imply they only cover costs, an option may be to sell the property , put the money into the bank which was paying 8.8 % interest today - suddenly you have cash liquidity and a reasonably guaranteed income with no costs and no worries .....job done .....an option maybe worth considering
And please I am not getting at anyone personally or going against the MR polocy, but in a business this is how you would evaluate such things
Three very simple ways of knowing, KC99:
1. Electric key fobs deliberately wrenched from key rings
2. The outside extractor unit working overtime, even when the guests are out for the day or by the pool.
3. The room being ice cold when the cleaner goes in three hours after the guests have gone out (with the broken-off key fob in the slot and all the windows left open)
I could go on...
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I have to say most of our guest and to those visiting our development are wonderful. In 9 years we have had no deliberate damage and only have had wear and tear or moderate breakages of glasses & crockery (some of which have been done by us!). We have live on site management and one of the things that has our management tearing their hair out are the occasional guests that turn the air con on 24/7 while the windows and doors are open or leave the windows open and go off for the day with the aircon running. Even though they speak to them it doesn't deter them. Consequently we have fitted ecosense monitors for the air conditioning. If you can't change the behaviour of the occasional guest you can only try to change the setting factors. We won't make a profit by doing this but may reduce the waste electricity costs. Our reasonable guests don't even know it's there as they don't leave the aircon running when they aren't in and the doors/windows are open.
Cheescake most of our regular guests (which accounts for 70% of our bookings) would not agree with you. They know that if guests abuse the rental via excessive and unnecessary use of aircon and other comforts provided they know the rental charge will need go up. Like many owners, for us after family use renting is a way of paying some of the annual costs, not making a big fat profit.
You may not be aware that most hotels in Scotland have thermostats and timers on the central heating. We have just returned from a few days in Rome & Venice and neither hotel had a control for the air conditioning....you got it at the temperature they wanted to give it and it could have done with being cooler!
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KC, we read our electric meter before and immediately after a guest family leaves so we know exactly what has been consumed. And we know how much we consume per week in every season, BH has been keeping detailed records for 7 years now.
An option may be to sell the property ... KC, have you any idea of how many people are trying to do just that, with no success? The property market is dead.
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Just like to say I completely agree with the last two posts. All the owners I know who rent their homes genuinely want their guests to have a great time, and in the main I think most people do, otherwise no one would get repeat bookings. As I read it this topic was only ever about a very small minority of guests who behave really badly, nothing more. Our air con is there for people to use, whenever they need to, I certainly do. But if it gets overworked there is always a risk it could breakdown, which is not great if you happen to be the next arriving.
Isis
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Post Script:-
Bill just in. 700 TL (£233.33 at the good rate of 3 TL to the £) for 28 days electric bill in a 3 bed villa with pool. Anyone think this is reasonable use of electricity ???
This is after the key card was prized from the key ring of course.
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Our last bill for July only up to July 29 was TL844. This is for 6 ACs, no ecosensers.
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My last bill for August - 4 bed villa with 5 a/c's (no ecosense) is 654tl....
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So the average spend per week for all electricity seems to be between 165 TL and 211 TL [ £55 / £ 68 ]
This is for all electricity I assume - house lights, fridges, dishwashers etc - pool pumps outside lighting and air con
This does not seem excessive at all when you consider rentals people are paying in August
Wonder what the actual % this cost is of total revenue over the same period ???? Very little I would think
So all the previous complaints of renters about excessive use of air con by their customers seems quite unfounded
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Well said KC! Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Yes it's annoying if some guests take advantage, but it's a small proportion and its swings and roundabouts. The (overall) running cost should be, and are as far as I can see,reflected in the rentals. And as you say aircon doesn't make up the whole costs anyway.
If you don't like the running costs and potential "abuse" don't let the property. Perhaps it's not the golden goose that some people expected, but try depositing the funds in a UK bank and see what that gets you!!
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So the average spend per week for all electricity seems to be between 165 TL and 211 TL [ £55 / £ 68 ]
This is for all electricity I assume - house lights, fridges, dishwashers etc - pool pumps outside lighting and air con
This does not seem excessive at all when you consider rentals people are paying in August
Wonder what the actual % this cost is of total revenue over the same period ???? Very little I would think
So all the previous complaints of renters about excessive use of air con by their customers seems quite unfounded
As I said before, the A/C is there to be used, if people think that it needs to be on "24/7" what can be done about it?
We can attempt to thwart their irresponsibility by electronic gadgetry but the said gadgetry has cost to buy and install and in our case caused all sorts of frustration through not working correctly, so let's just accept it is part of the expenditure of the business.
Some you win, some you lose, profit and loss is what business is all about and as said, all we can hope for is that expenditure does not exceed income, if that happens? . . . . . business is not viable and goes into liquidation.
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Please note that I was not and never have complained....I was just giving info as to my last bill - that is all!! :)
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It is becoming apparent, reading some posts on this subject, that I am completely out of step with the modern world. I was always taught not to waste things. I was also taught that vandalism, in whatever form it takes, should always be discouraged.
It would seem that the profligate use of air conditioning, with its inherent waste of energy and money (especially the money of those nasty Rackman like landlord people) is a good thing, a divine right even, and to be encouraged. Presumably it would also be a good idea to turn on every other electrical device 24/7, to maximise the wastage. After all, the guests are paying to rent the villa/apartment and we wouldn't like the nasty owner to make a profit (oops, that unmentionable word) would we?
The guest could then bask in the knowledge that any profits (oops, that naughty word again) are draining away every minute and enjoy the benefits. Oh!! I forgot. There aren't any benefits!
I don't suppose the old green eyed monster is lurking in the background somewhere. Nooo! Of course not.
When the guests are back in the UK, I expect they would be delighted to pay winter quarterly electric bills of between £715 and £884 (equivalent trivial sums to those calculated for Turkey in summer), or perhaps they would be a little more circumspect with there consumption of energy when they have to pay directly.
I equate the deliberate waste of energy in the manner we are discussing to shoplifting. Everyone pays for the misdemeanors of the few, except with shoplifting at least someone gains.
Every owner on this thread, including myself, has taken pains to emphasize that we are discussing a minority. They know who they are - the ones who ignore all requests and information on the use of air-con and go out of there way to subvert any attempt to moderate it's use. Please do not encourage them.
It may be a coincidence or my imagination, but there seems to be a correlation between excessive energy consumption and the incidence of "accidental" damage in villas. I wonder why that is.
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There is absolutely no excuse for anyone to mistreat a property they are renting (as in being the people who have paid to be there).
As far as the use of air con is concerned maybe owners could give guidance/suggestions about the best use of it? Not details of how expensive it is etc. as I can see that to some people this would be a red rag to a bull but, maybe the most effective use of it. It has taken me years of renting to work out what is the best temperature during the night etc to use and have spent many sleepless nights either being too hot or too cold! Maybe just some pointers using some of the info in these posts about how long it takes to cool down, best temperatures linked to outdoor temperature etc.
call me naive but I'm sure most people would welcome some guidance.
Personally I think I have it sussed.......sleep with the remote in bed for the first couple of nights while you work out the best temperature.....only time I have control of a remote!! ;D ;D
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It is becoming apparent, reading some posts on this subject, that I am completely out of step with the modern world. I was always taught not to waste things. I was also taught that vandalism, in whatever form it takes, should always be discouraged.
It would seem that the profligate use of air conditioning, with its inherent waste of energy and money (especially the money of those nasty Rackman like landlord people) is a good thing, a divine right even, and to be encouraged. Presumably it would also be a good idea to turn on every other electrical device
24/7, to maximise the wastage. After all, the guests are paying to rent the villa/apartment and we wouldn't like the nasty owner to make a profit (oops, that unmentionable word) would we?
The guest could then bask in the knowledge that any profits (oops, that naughty word again) are draining away every minute and enjoy the benefits. Oh!! I forgot. There aren't any benefits!
I don't suppose the old green eyed monster is lurking in the background somewhere. Nooo! Of course not.
When the guests are back in the UK, I expect they would be delighted to pay winter quarterly electric bills of between £715 and £884 (equivalent trivial sums to those calculated for Turkey in summer), or perhaps they would be a little more circumspect with there consumption of energy when they have to pay directly.
I equate the deliberate waste of energy in the manner we are discussing to shoplifting. Everyone pays for the misdemeanors of the few, except with shoplifting at least someone gains.
Every owner on this thread, including myself, has taken pains to emphasize that we are discussing a minority. They know who they are - the ones who ignore all requests and information on the use of air-con and go out of there way to subvert any attempt to moderate it's use. Please do not encourage them.
It may be a coincidence or my imagination, but there seems to be a correlation between excessive energy consumption and the incidence of "accidental" damage in villas. I wonder why that is.
Like all things it's a matter of perspective Chris and let's try to keep it here. I don't think anyone has suggested people should be encouraged to run everything 24/7. Or that it's a good thing to waste energy
The "average" bill people have talked about seems to be around £60pw. But this isn't just for aircon. You make the point that people wouldn't want to pay that amount back home. Well actually to make a fair comparison one would have to assume that the said home was heated by electricity, or that the gas bill was also taken into account. Also I think an average summertime temp of say 35 deg in kalkan would take more energy than our average winter of say 5 deg. Start thinking of the gas/electric to heat a house with a constant -10 deg and you get a fairer comparison. Oh and the don't forget to add in a pool pump for at least 10 hours a day and what about pool lights for a few hours. Plus of course whatever other gadgets villa owners may have (water coolers, freezers, etc etc).
My son has a large apt in this country. Warm air electric heating, no swimming pool (lol), his energy costs in the winter are actually not a million miles away from those you mention; and yes he's in work all day. He also doesn't keep the heating on all night. I do sometimes (horror of horror) keep the aircon on through the night(it's my own apt). So why should I not expect others to.
As you admit we are talking about a minority and as headroom says some you win some you lose.
If you are looking purely at the bottom line then as myself and others have emphasised, surely owners can turn a fair profit and shoulder a £60 electricity bill. I don't know what the average rental is and wouldn't ask. But i think that after the £60 and other costs there should be a fair profit left. I do know I have a 2 bed apt with 3 aircons and am more than happy with my bottom line. I also know that my rental rates are quite a lot lower than many comparable properties. So for me it's take the rough with the smooth. Am I happy, yes; are the guests happy, yes. Good return on money, yes. End of!!
Oh and to equate it with shoplifting is sorry where you lose all perspective. One is illegal the other just upsets you!
As has been said before if anyone thinks they are not making enough money, try putting your rentals up or investing elsewhere.
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Just had a real shock. Got the highest electric bill ever in 10 years. July 30 - Aug 27: 1291.50 TL ! That means more than 400 quid in less than 1 month.
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Hi Cossetta. We have a similiar experience at out apartment block over the same period. We are currently investigating why the bills are so high. Looks like they are almost double.
Wonder if the Tedas have a mistake in their tariffs?
Are you doing any investigation into the high bill?
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Wow something is not right there !! That would be £4.920 per year . You sure that's not the whole of kalkans bill .. Turkish wages are not high how can they afford these bills .
Do you check the meter readings ? Do you have a management company who looks after this ?
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These are simply our English renters running 6 ACs 24/7 in August. We have no mgmt company, manage our villa ourselves. Yes, we check the meters after every renter leaves. Fact is, the electric company was privatised, sold by the government to a private company. According to economic theory, it should therefore be more efficient and enable lower rates but in practice, it is still a monopoly -- they can charge what they like, there is no competition. The other thing that some people do not realize about both water and electricity here in Turkey, the more you use the higher the rate per unit. Just the opposite of what is the case in many other countries.
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Makes you wonder how the locals can afford their electric bills ...?. As the wages ect are not high .. Will get my bills next week I'll update you what mine are .
Can't wait to get back to Kalkan :laugh:
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Locals will not necessarily have nor use the A/C units the way the English renters will nor will they have pools/pool pumps so a large proportion of large summer bills will not be consumed in the same way by local Turkish people.
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Not trying to be a 'topper' but our electric bill for nigh-on the same dates as Cosetta last Aug was......just over £1,300, yes you read it right ???
We spoke to the Tedas, they checked the meter and said all was working fine, where do you go from there ?????
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You grin and bear it ! :o
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Not trying to be a 'topper' but our electric bill for nigh-on the same dates as Cosetta last Aug was......just over £1,300, yes you read it right ???
We spoke to the Tedas, they checked the meter and said all was working fine, where do you go from there ?????
Both small beer compared to our June bill of 337,000TL, our agent had to go to Antalya to discuss it. Just realised he hasn't mentioned it since and hope that means he sorted it out.
For anyone who rents out a lot and is routinely receiving large electricity bills, it may be worth seeing if replacing you air con units would save money. The latest ones use less than half the electricity of units that are 5+ years old.
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Thanks for the tip, Alantj. I will check out the prices but as 4 of the 6 are older, might be too expensive to make it worthwhile. These high bills only happen in July and August, mostly August.
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alantj have you recently replaced a/c units and if so did you notice a drop in electrity costs? Can you please let me know who did you used to replace them? many thanks
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I found this thread Very interesting, thanks to all that have posted......So far >:D
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Our last guests holiday was completely ruined because our villa we didn't have a "whisk or a mixing bowl" what utter baskets we are as owners. The Best restaurants in Turkey only a 10 min walk and they elect to eat in almost every night for 2 weeks..... you couldn't make it up!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Trip Adviser Side......!!!!
Kentia air-con charges
17 August 2013, 11:06
Having booked an apartment at the Kentia I just noticed it states on my booking that there is an additional charge for air-con. Never heard of this before, air-con isn't a luxury it's a basic requirement! Does anyone know if this is the case, and if so how much they charge ?
1. Re: Kentia air-con charges
17 August 2013, 11:12
Many many places charge extra for air con and safe deposit boxes.
Janisem
United Kingdom
posts: 31
2. Re: Kentia air-con charges
17 August 2013, 12:04
Approximately how much do they charge, is it per day or is it based on usage please?
3. Re: Kentia air-con charges
17 August 2013, 14:01
Air con varies. This year i paid £5 per day = £35 per week.
Obviously safe deposit boxes are much cheaper around £10 per week. I have never hired one as i tend to padlock my suitcases with my money hidden well inside one of the cases.
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Janisem
United Kingdom
posts: 31
4. Re: Kentia air-con charges
17 August 2013, 18:55
Thanks, have you been to the Kentia?
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Andy612295
Cardiff, United...
posts: 75
reviews: 5
5. Re: Kentia air-con charges
17 August 2013, 19:02
air con is a luxury not a basic requirement, otherwise everyone on the planet would have it...
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caskey768
crawley
posts: 76
reviews: 1
6. Re: Kentia air-con charges
17 August 2013, 19:10
I haven't been to Side before let along Kentia. To be honest it doesn't really float m y boat for personal reasons.
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Whiteonyx, I would think a whisk and mixing bowl are pretty basic requirements. Scrambled eggs for breakfast? Not everyone wants to or can afford to eat out for every meal. Staying in a villa should gives guests the choice.
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Whiteonyx, I would think a whisk and mixing bowl are pretty basic requirements. Scrambled eggs for breakfast? Not everyone wants to or can afford to eat out for every meal. Staying in a villa should gives guests the choice.
........but would you not just go out and buy these utensils if you wanted scrambled eggs? Wouldn't break the bank!
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Whiteonyx, I would think a whisk and mixing bowl are pretty basic requirements. Scrambled eggs for breakfast? Not everyone wants to or can afford to eat out for every meal. Staying in a villa should gives guests the choice.
........but would you not just go out and buy these utensils if you wanted scrambled eggs? Wouldn't break the bank!
But surely a whisk and bowl aren't totally essential to make scrambled eggs are they, with a little improvisation a fork and any sort of container would suffice?
A guy who I once told we didn't have a micro-wave in our villa said "ah but we'd need one, the children like warm milk before they go to bed" . . . Huh? hello, we didn't always have microwaves and warm milk is not a modern day phenomenon!
Needless to say we bought a microwave next time we went to Kalkan, . . . . well you just have to cater for people's needs don't you!
Oh and just in case you're wondering, we have an electric mixer AND a bowl, so? perfect scrambled eggs are assured. :)
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Oops, we don't have a whisk in any of our properties! A fork would surely be the best option - a solution I frequently would use myself at home rather than seek out our whisks at the back of the utensils drawer...
We did get told once that we didn't have enough frying pans though (we had 3 large-ish ones)...not enough for a full English maybe.
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We were also asked for a whisk some years back, now we have 3 of them! Plus the electric mixer, food chopper, many mixing bowls, pans of every size and shape .... and this summer people used them all, the results were visible.
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I've perversely loved reading this thread because up until now I thought it was just me who had the odd rogue renter! This year we had a family who kept asking us to do something about the dogs barking at night. :o Now, whilst I wholly agree it's very very very annoying, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do (being in the UK)! Husband (who's Turkish) has spoken to the Mayor who basically said they won't do anything.
On another topic - air con! At the beginning of this season we installed timers to the air con units so they only come on (if switched on) at 7pm in the evening and off at 6am in the morning. So far this seems to have worked because it avoids people leaving it on and going out during the day. We thought about having a key/fob device but for all the reasons mentioned on page 1 and page 2 of this thread, we decided this might be the better route. We've yet to see the bills but fingers crossed they won't be as bad as last year!
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Hi Michele, totally agree with you re the dogs. Fancy thinking that as the property owner, you can control their barking? As serial renters, I'd like to think that we've a bit more common sense than that!
Do you advertise that the air cons on a timer? I must say that I'd be really disappointed if I was only allowed to use air con in an evening, especially if I'd paid approx £2000.00 for my rental. I can't imagine what I'd look like, trying to get ready on a hot and sticky august evening with my makeup sliding down my face faster than I was applying it!
I do understand that some people abuse everything, especially the air con, eg leaving doors and windows open while running it 24/7, but it would certainly put me off renting if I couldn't have the priveledge of using it when I needed it.
One of our daughters has very fair skin and can only stand so much sun. She needs to stay indoors when the sun is at it's strongest and to have to swelter inside would be unthinkable. Most places we have stayed, don't have mossie screens on every window and we don't want to end up with them as unwelcome house mates by leaving windows and doors open.
Just a thought from the other side of the coin and from extremely responsible and careful renters. We are not all bad, I promise :)
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Liz, I'm sure that most owners have no problem with people using the air on while they are actually in the accommodation...that's what it's there for!
It's the people that go out all day and want to leave the aircon on with the windows open that cause problems! It's both stupid and irresponsible. From talking to you, I'm pretty sure you and your family aren't in that category :)
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Aw, thanks Martyn :-*. That was very sweet, but I'm not adding to your thank you tally just yet ha ha >:D ;D
I'm having withdrawals from Kalkan and I cannot wait for this winter to pass by quickly and raise my lal rose glass to you again at midtown. :)
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Hi Lizilu - The majority of our renters have been like yourself, most responsible however some of the electric bills have been horrendous. I most definitely advertise the air con as being on a timer because it wouldn't be fair otherwise. It hasn't been a problem for anybody and thankfully we have repeat guests and for the past 4 or 5 years have been fully booked so I hope we're doing something right! ;)
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I meet many people in the summer who proudly say they have left their aircon on all day so it will be lovely and cold when they return from a day out!! I think many of them just do not think so maybe more info needed in a villa rather than just a notice telling renters to turn off when they go out! They soon moan about power cuts but willing to overload the system day and night.
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I also would not rent a villa - especially not an expensive villa - where the aircon was on a timer and I couldn't use it when I wanted it. Although our electric bill was high, it averages out to an acceptable amount because some of our renters used very little aircon, others used a lot. It's built into the price. I find it more annoying that people don't declare what they've broken, even when it's not much money to fix it. Just discovered yesterday that someone broke my electric mixer. All renters swore they didn't break anything - hahahaha! We had a good share of small damage like this over the past summer, I've decided not to accept back any of those who rented from us since I can't know who really was responsible.
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The eco sense air con 'timers' don't spoil anyone's enjoyment of the air con, they just turn off so long after detecting movement in the premises. It just stops people leaving it on all day which as Amber says, is surprisingly common. This doesn't serve anyone's purpose at all.
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Kalkan's Magic, have you managed to get the eco sense pir's to work ?
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The eco sense air con 'timers' don't spoil anyone's enjoyment of the air con, they just turn off so long after detecting movement in the premises. It just stops people leaving it on all day which as Amber says, is surprisingly common. This doesn't serve anyone's purpose at all.
I've just bought 3 of the Ecosense 4000 units to have fitted when I am next out in KK in December. There have been various discussion threads on the forum about teething problems with their installation/setting up, but I've contacted Hobbo (currently on hols in Istanbul) - who has successfully installed 5 units in his villa, and who has kindly offered to share some useful pointers on his return. I will post these tips, along with my own experiences in due course.
Even though I have had an energy saving/key fob system installed to avoid aircon being left on while guests are out, my property manager who pops round to the apartment to see my guests from time to time at their request, has lost count of the number of times she has arrived to find all guests outside round the pool, only to find that inside, all the aircon units are going full blast - often with windows and doors open. I am hoping the new sensors will cut down on this wicked waste of energy.
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We were also asked for a whisk some years back, now we have 3 of them! Plus the electric mixer, food chopper, many mixing bowls, pans of every size and shape .... and this summer people used them all, the results were visible.
Cosetta's quote made me smile, and highlights a dilemma I'm pondering on. I've had a great first season's rental of my apartment; It's already very well equipped, and I've gone out of my way to make sure guests have everything they need to enjoy their stay, including extras such as cocktail shakers, cafetieres, espresso maker, specialist cooking utensils, BBQ tools, water hammocks, beach toys, board games, DVD and music library. I know many other owners do the same. My guests have lapped it up, and there has so far been little damage. (That's if you exclude the idiot to lit and ruined an antique amber ornamental candle which was in a glass case and mounted on the wall - clearly intended for decorative purposes. Or the guest who nicked all my mosquito plug-ins and 2-pin adaptors - spoiling things for the next guests).
So as am spending more and more time there myself - especially during the winter, I have taken over many electrical items - as I love to cook. I have a slow cooker, mixer, blender, chopper, electronic scales. There is baking equipment, roasting tins, aprons and oven gloves - you get the general picture. So my dilemma is this: is it mean-spirited to keep these locked away for my own use, or do I throw caution to the wind and let guests use them too? Once of my main concerns would be that it would make extra work (and expense) for my cleaning team, as at present all the cutlery/crockery/glasses are put through the dishwasher between lets, to ensure everything is pristine for the next guests. (Although I did get a guest who complained that there was a dried on speck of coriander on the back of one of the plates.) Would it suffice to let guests know they were welcome to use the equipment, as long as they returned it to the box in clean condition ready for the next guests to use?
Do any owners with more experience have any comments/advice?
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A good point Christina...there's a fine line between providing sufficient equipment for guests to have a comfortable and enjoyable stay and complete overkill.
Bearing in mind that they are staying in Kalkan, where one of the main attractions is the selection of high quality restaurants, will they really need a vast range of cooking utensils? In our experience the answer is a resounding "no". They are on holiday, not training for Masterchef :)
The main problem, as you suggest, is cleaning turnaround times. Cleaners simply don't have the time to do things like washing up on a changeover day and you cannot rely on guests - however nice they are - to wash up utensils to a good enough standard if they are rushing to get ready for their homeward flight on their last day! It's the same problem with barbeques...very nice to have, but who cleans the blighters? Cleaners just don't have the time (if they are doing their main job properly).
I'd suggest providing MORE than enough of the essentials, but just enough of the non-essentials and don't go over the top. Trust me, it won't affect your bookings ;)
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We have some apartments infront of us that are rented out. We have noticed the a/c units are on 24/7 whilst the guests are in or out. We have seen the doors wide open & them guests all around the pool & still the units are churning away. This also causes problems with the units ,the fans start making loud noises cranking away which then disturbs us & fellow neighbours. Just pleased sometimes we don't rent out, we shudder at what the electric bills must be.
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Kalkan's Magic, have you managed to get the eco sense pir's to work ?
We have successfully used the Ecosense 2000 units (the battery operated ones) in one of our apartments this season. They worked well, with no complaints from guests.
The only problem is they only work with more recent air con units (the ones with a different "on" and "off" code).
We are still using the key fob cut offs in the other apartments (with the usual precautions like soldering the key rings together :) ) and the bills seem to be roughly the same as for the Ecosense equipped one, so both seem to be effective. Hope that helps.
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As a long time serial renter I would expect a largish villa with a large kitchen to provide more than a small apartment with a tiny kitchen.. as the price would reflect, whilst not wishing to go on "Masterchef" we do tend to cater a lot for ourselves, I don't need excessive kitchen gadgets but expect what there is to be clean and useable which has not always been the case ...We like to enjoy our meals in an air conditioned environment rather than being crammed into a small space next to strangers talking loudly with a small fire lit on the table!! if we eat out it tends to be snacks...More and more people we have met are catering for themselves many folk who are lucky enough to be in work are on the same wages as they were 2 years ago and as we all know everything else has shot up..if that means we self cater in order to go to kalkan we will as we don't mind anyway..The lady we have rented from for the past few years looks after us with a good rental rate confident that we look after her property and will return each year...we have booked again for next year .......as they say love is a two way street!
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Hi Onelove and MartynE - we have 3 properties and have enough ecosense units for all rooms in the three. However although they are fitted, we haven't yet had an opportunity to programme them all as we have had guests in the others when we have been in Kalkan. We had Benli hard wire the units then programmed one which we did fine and it seemed to work well. It was a bit tricky to do and we hope to do all of the others when we are there at New Year. I did post on here to see if there was anyone who had done the programming before but most people just had the battery operated units. I may pick Hobbo's brains for some tips though before we go out again... KM
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KM... I found the 2000 battery units quite easy to set up but don't know about the 4000s.
Have you tried the Ecosense remote controllers? They are really clever.
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We have the hard wired 4000 models....Never ever managed to get the bloody things to work :-((((
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We have the hard wired 4000 models....Never ever managed to get the bloody things to work :-((((
we too had the 4000's, got one wired in (by qualified electrical engineer) didn't work, couldn't reset it, sent them back, great idea but far from foolproof. The remotes sound good I watched the you tube vid. eyes glazed over a couple of times, brain switched off obviously a serious faff to set up, I reckon it would take me at least half a day to set six up. :-\
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How much is your Day Rate ? !
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How much is your Day Rate ? !
point taken.
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OK here goes..
Ecosense 4000mk2
the position of the ecosense is very important..
Placing it :
directly below the AC unit means that whilst it can 'see' the room and detect movement unfortunately it seems that the moving air blowing over it is detected as movement and hence doesn't switch off.
Directly above the AC unit means that there is a 'shadow' under the unit where it will not detect movement, e.g. if the AC is above the bed the unit doesn't see the person on the bed.
Same is true if set to the right or left of the AC unit. (movement detection shadow)
I found the best location is to the right or left of the AC unit and slightly lower (e.g. top right corner of the ecosense touching the bottom left corner of the AC unit ) so it can see most of the room and is away from the moving air. The electrician we used didn't understand this and I ended up moving reconnecting them myself. As the units are mounted touching each other the cable doesn't need to be chased in.
I programmed and configured the devices myself, once you have done one the rest get easier the instructions should be read several times before you start!! it's hard enough when English is you 1st language...
Once setup they work.. however things we have noted when staying ourselves :
in a bedroom, where it is set to not switch off when its dark, works fine until it comes light at 5am and your bedroom has walls/ceiling that is an energy store (our roof bedroom has a concrete roof/ceiling that stores heat) once it becomes daylight the aircon switches off if no movement is noticed and the temp soars!! (also if you sleep-in) if you are in a deep sleep with no movement the aircon cuts off and the temp raises even in a cool room. Our curtains are light, darker curtains may be needed. I have disconnected the unit in the roof bedroom and will be installing an inverter style AC unit next spring (more economical to run).
I have also written a note to clients showing them how to use the timer that is built into our AC remote (most that I have seen have this facility), this allows them to set the AC to switch on after a period of time .. e.g. they are off out for the day at 10:00 expect to be back at 17:00 set the unit to switch on at 23c in 6.5hrs, this saves them having the 'justification' of 'I want the room cool when I get back not half an hour later!' something that I can appreciate.
hope this helps someone..
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Re installation of the Ecosense 4000 sensors, I have now received a response from Ecosense Customer Services to the points made by Hobbo yesterday. Apologies for boring those not affected by the issue, but I am posting the Ecosense reply in full as it may be helpful to other members. Hobbo's comments in italics, Ecosense responses in bold. Personally, I don't feel any further forward. If any members have another brand of sensor that is simple to install and works well, I would be interested to know. (As the content of this post is quite lengthy and technical, I fully understand if the moderator feels the need to move this discussion to a separate thread.)
Firstly I would like to reassure you that over 25,000 Ecosense 4000', have now been successfully installed world wide, so I guess it must be expected that a small minority of installations encounter some difficulties.
Hopefully I have addressed the points raised below;
"OK here goes..
Ecosense 4000mk2
the position of the ecosense is very important..
Placing it :
The instructions do stipulate the recommend installation position, which is as he points out below.
Directly below the AC unit means that whilst it can 'see' the room and detect movement unfortunately it seems that the moving air blowing over it is detected as movement and hence doesn't switch off.
Under some circumstances this can happen, as PIR detects the movement of heat, so very cold air blowing into a hot room can create a false detections. However this is only temporary situation as the room cools, the differential between the room temp, and the temp of the air exiting the AC in not enough to register as movement
Directly above the AC unit means that there is a 'shadow' under the unit where it will not detect movement, e.g. if the AC is above the bed the unit doesn't see the person on the bed
The sensor is not designed to detect a person in bed. PIR detects the movement of heat, and not a static person.
Same is true if set to the right or left of the AC unit. (movement detection shadow)
I found the best location is to the right or left of the AC unit and slightly lower (e.g. top right corner of the ecosense touching the bottom left corner of the AC unit ) so it can see most of the room and is away from the moving air.
This is the recommended location for the 4000
The electrician we used didn't understand this and I ended up moving reconnecting them myself. As the units are mounted touching each other the cable doesn't need to be chased in.
Correct, again as per the instructions
I programmed and configured the devices myself, once you have done one the rest get easier the instructions should be read several times before you start!! it's hard enough when English is your 1st language...
The first page of the instructions do stipulate that the instructions should be read in full before commencing installation, which is standard practice for most instructions. Most failures arise because the instructions are not followed.
Once setup they work.. however things we have noted when staying ourselves :
in a bedroom, where it is set to not switch off when its dark, works fine until it comes light at 5am and your bedroom has walls/ceiling that is an energy store (our roof bedroom has a concrete roof/ceiling that stores heat) once it becomes daylight the aircon switches off if no movement is noticed and the temp soars!! (also if you sleep-in) if you are in a deep sleep with no movement the aircon cuts off and the temp raises even in a cool room. Our curtains are light, darker curtains may be needed. I have disconnected the unit in the roof bedroom and will be installing an inverter style AC unit next spring (more economical to run).
Again the writer is correct, in that Ecosense does go back to operating when it detects light again in the morning. However the scenario used as an example does appear a little extreme, and to my knowledge this has not been brought to our attention before as an issue.
I have also written a note to clients showing them how to use the timer that is built into our AC remote (most that I have seen have this facility), this allows them to set the AC to switch on after a period of time .. e.g. they are off out for the day at 10:00 expect to be back at 17:00 set the unit to switch on at 23c in 6.5hrs, this saves them having the 'justification' of 'I want the room cool when I get back not half an hour later!' something that I can appreciate.
hope this helps someone.."
I think the writer is being a little optimistic that renters will make the effort to set up timers etc. Our larger clients such as Villa Plus, James Villas, Home Away, report to us that notices and recommendation etc, are rarely successful when attempting to educate clients with regards to the use of the AC.
Lastly Ecosense Ltd prides its self with a customer support service second to none. We provide a live chat via the web site, two help line numbers (available seven days a week), plus skype assistance (seven days a week)
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Very helpful Chris, thanks. But....does anyone know anyone in Kalkan who is willing to install them for us ? We will of course pay for this service.
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During the sumer we visited Pammukale and stayed at a hotel that had found another way of limiting the waste of energy. When you opened windows or the door to the balcony the air com automatically turned off; starting up again once they were closed.
It worked well, even my 12 year old daughter managed to grasp the concept and started closing the balcony door when she went in and out. As the hotel was in the top 5 on Tripadvisor it cannot have annoyed too many of the guests.
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Thanks v much Hobbo and Christina, for taking the time to include that information. It is v useful and we will try and put it into practice in December! We managed to get one working last time but can't recall exactly how we did it!
However, if anyone knows anyone who will willingly programme the rest of ours for us (we have 3 units and 6 in our other property so 9 in total and they are already hardwired and in situ) we would be delighted to pay for the service too. Thanks again.
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Ecosense4000 additional learning and comments..
Fully agree with their replies I was just highlighting my findings and yes our roof bedroom does have extreme conditions in July/Aug (as will many other villas in Kalkan). On my point regarding leaving instructions about the timer, this is so that if a customer comments/complains about the fact that the aircon goes off whilst they are out it can be pointed out that the info was available.. in 3 years of using the ecosense units I have only had 2 guests mention them (both in July/Aug) both regarding the roof bedroom. Interestingly whilst the recommended position is slightly below and to one side (as in the instructions and their youtube presentations) the website illustrations and leaflets show it above the AC unit..
Other points that might help during set-up :
in the set-up part of the instructions.. 'press and hold the delay and day/night set buttons together until a light starts flashing ...... when the light stops flashing the process has been completed ', note there is a led that flashes when motion is detected if are watching the wrong flashing led you could be there for a while..
once the 'learn' of the off command has been achieved and the lock button pressed until the beep etc.. you need to leave the unit without touching any buttons for 15 mins for it to lock and save the settings. This is in the instructions but can easily be missed as you naturally want to move on and configure the day/night and delay settings. (it may be that you can go directly to set these up then leave 15mins but after several failed attempts it worked for me doing it in 2 stages so I stuck with that!)
the youtube instructions http://youtu.be/q38FNxtqmjA (http://youtu.be/q38FNxtqmjA) are really helpful and clear, HOWEVER not complete.. they miss out how to teach the unit the remote off signal, leaving 15 mins to lock and save settings and the unlock again to set day/night and delay settings.
apologies for the detail but thought it may help someone..
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Thanks for taking the time and effort to post very in depth instructions Hobbo.
Albeit, I may have to take you and Mrs Hobbo for a meal & drink in return for....!!!!
Onelove.
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Thanks for taking the time and effort to post very in depth instructions Hobbo.
Albeit, I may have to take you and Mrs Hobbo for a meal & drink in return for....!!!!
Onelove.
I think several of us will be forming an orderly queue to wine and dine Hobbo.
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Re the Ecosense 4000 units (the hard-wired kind) - having bought these in the UK at the end of last year I finally got them successfully fitted in my apartment over the last day or so. It was thanks to the endless patience, optimism and expertise of a new friend who gave up a large chunk of his one week holiday to help me. Even for an experienced electrician, it took him a good 7 hours to figure out how to fit the first one. Having cracked this, he came back yesterday to fit the remaining two. Like many others, after hours of frustration trying to follow instructions that were incomplete, we resorted to Skyping the inventor in the UK (Steve Hardman). There were instructions posted online in a YouTube video, but as this is now banned in Turkey we were unable to view. Now that the units were installed and programmed, they work well, and will hopefully avoid future misuse of the aircon.
If anyone is thinking of bringing these units over from the UK to fit in their properties, try to watch the YouTube video in the UK first (although I've read reports that even this is far from perfect). My initial plan was to get a Turkish electrician/aircon engineer to fit mine - but I have no doubt that they would have struggled with the instructions which do not appear to be available in Turkish.
On a positive note the inventor mentioned during our Skype chat that Ecosense is aiming to establish itself in Turkey, and Steve Hardman is planning to come to Kalkan in the next couple of weeks. This might be of interest to anyone who is still struggling to install and programme their sensors.