Kalkan Turkey Forum - EnjoyKalkan.com
Kalkan Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: DRBD on February 11, 2008, 01:16:31 PM
-
Having read Busters reports on his moving to Kalkan, was wondering how others felt about it and if given the chance would they seriously think about it and why. And for those who have done it already, why did you and any good tips for those who may want to.
-
I would love to retire to Kalkan and reading Buster''s blog just makes me want to do so even more. The great thing about his blog is that he doesn''t romantasize it, you get the warts and all account. But I could so relate to the bit about chasing sales targets and writing sales reports etc. Sounds very similar to my old job! Because I have been made redundant I have started to re-evaluate my life and priorities, sadly financially we are not in a position to retire just yet, but who knows!
-
Me too - I would love to retire to Kalkan and Busters blog just makes me want to even more so...sadly likewise - financially we can''t afford to and still need to get the kids through end of school and university - so we are talking 10 years to early - but if only it could be tomorrow...!! Still - I am lucky enough to have a lovely place in Kalkan - so it could be a lot worse...!!
I can so appreciate Busters words - as Loretta says about sales targets and travelling about London - and can empathise with his comment that ''luxury is not having to worry about the time'' - that day just can''t come soon enough!
-
Oooooh...in the perfect world of a thirty something couple with no kids and a love of a simple good life, the answer would be yes!
During our second visit to Kalkan we spent lots of time discussing the idea of just leaving everything and taking off to live there, but the financial aspect and few job opportunities made it difficult to imagine with our present standard of living.
Maybe one day we will feel confident enough to make it a reality! :)
-
Another 6 years of mortgage payments, then the plan is to put away as much money as we can so we have some money to live off as I''m not sure if our pensions would pay enough. As we have our apartment, and assuming we still have it then, the plan is to go out there for longer periods and see how we get on. In the meantime, keep the blogs coming Buster.
-
OH & I are now retired & have been for some 4 years now. The job OH did predicated early retirement & we had always planned for it.
We thought long & hard about retiring abroad & in the end decided we didn''t want to. Many reasons & I hope no one takes offence at any of them.
If I went to live abroad I would want to be able to assimilate as much as possible into the local community & to do that I would have to speak Turkish. I know (having spent 6 months at evening class) that I would find it very difficult to ever become anything like remotely fluent.
I would miss the library, browsing in second hand bookshops, going (occasionally) to the theatre, a daily paper (on the right day) & many other cultural things, like RSPB lectures, my local horticultural club etc.
I also think about what would happen if one of you died. It could be hugely lonely & isolating for the one left. I would also worry about health care in old age & provision for care if one (or both) got bad dementure or something incapacitating.
We have friends who have retired to Spain & France and many of them spend their lives mixing mainly with other Brits & drinking a heck of a lot as one of their sole amusements. Don''t get me wrong, I enjoy a drink as much as anyone else but a great many of these people are in serious danger of real health damage. I suspect it is probably more of a trap to fall into in Europe than Turkey however.
I would also hate to ''burn my boats'' in the UK & not have somewhere to come back to if one wanted to & there is no way we could have realistically afforded that & a place abroad and some pension to live on.
Reading that through it looks very negative & I know there are positive reasons for retiring abroad & we spent much time thinking about it & came down in favour of not doing so.
In the end, it''s ''horses for courses'', however & Good Luck & much joy to those of you who do decide to make the move.
-
Sally - a good balanced and certainly not negative view on somebody who has seriously considered it....!! Trouble is those of us - who are longing for that day - are possibly living in cloud cuckoo land - coz if it actually came to it - how many of us wouldn''t have the same or similar concerns - grass always greener and all that..!!
Oh and by the way - I think the drinking is just as much a problem in Turkey as in France and Spain - we''re all english and I don''t think it matters whereever you are..!!
Cheers (oops - figuratively I meant!! ;D :o)
-
Oh - and DRBD - as the person who started the thread - would you or wouldnt you..??? ;)
-
i would go like a shot..although i''m far to young to retire!! at the moment we have elderly relatives near where we live so this has to be taken into consideration.What was once Great Britain is now just britain..plus us lizards like warmer climes!! ;D ;D
-
Hi
We are looking at spending more time in our home in Kalkan from next year onwards, ready for our retirement there in 20 years time!!
Em
-
I hope to in the not too distant future, perhaps next year, although not strictly correct to say retiring as I''d probably continue to work from home over there.
Hi Loretta, it must be you and you other half we met a couple of times at the Moonlight with Alan and Gillian, we live next door to Alan & Gillian in Kalkan, Linda and Mehmet ?
It''s been a long winter and I''m dying to see a bit of sun, roll on my next holiday
Linda
-
Hi Sally,
We have also deliberated but have lots of friends and family near us and hence a great social life, which I would find hard to give up! I love my life here and also love going to Kalkan, so we think we can enjoy both! My OH loves his work and therefore having already taken early retirement twice, I know he would not settle 100% and would end up driving me mad!
We spend 6 weeks max out in Kalkan right now, but the plan is to spend longer spells out there each year, until we eventually pack in working. We have both enjoyed our careers so much that it will be quite a learning curve! We also enjoy travelling to other places and as such, try to stretch the elastic as best we can. Kalkan still seems like ''home'' to us and I do often sit in my office wondering why our beautiful view sits all on it''s own for virtually 44 weeks a year! (sister has 2 weeks...mum and dad would find the hills a problem).
Who knows, a long spell may weave it''s Kalkan Magic on us and all could change!!
I
-
I''ve often thought about retirement in Kalkan; men generally think about you know what about every 3 seconds apparently. Kalkan comes about every 5 seconds with me! lol Seriously though, I''m probably a bit closer than some of you to retirement - hopefully! - me and Rosib hope to move to Scotland when the big day comes, which is where she comes from. I think having agreed to do that I''d have to have the antidote to the Scottish weather and have Kalkan to flee too when things got a little too much. But permanent? I dont think so. Children and grandaughters, who probably couldn''t join us that often, we''d miss desperately but certainly extended stays there sound like something to look forward to. Bill
-
We are looking towards retirement in the next two years, (we are in our mid fifties) our villa is furnished and finished to almost the Nth degree it has stunning views of Kalkan, the bay and islands, we are letting it out to holiday makers but whilst we wish them a wonderful holiday, we feel slightly resentful as well, . . . . WE SHOULD BE THERE! We have the intention, dream? (everyone needs a dream) of living more or less full time in Kalkan, we have pondered and pondered and ponde. . . . .(well pondered actually) so much, we wanted to keep some roots in England, but have now resolved to sell up and just do it! Life is too short to dither too long and if all goes pear shaped then so be it, we have thought of the health issues, the family issues, the cash flow issues, the price of mint humbugs . . . . THE LOT! and having looked and considered all the negatives, we still see so many positives! We love the place, we love the people, we have some genuinely good friends, and we refuse to get into the ex pat thing. Whilst there may be a language problem, we already have the basics and with the help of friends we will manage, winters will be better, summers will be SUMMER, life will be sloooower! We will be four hours away from Blighty, but four hours in a different world, tell me you wouldn''t want that. I hear all the dissenters and I will accept it won''t be easy, but I''m up for it!
-
We have seriously thought of retiring to Kalkan but like Yelkenite we have grandchildren who we love to see and ''spoil'' regularly, I would hate to be just a voice on the end of the phone. We are hoping to retire in a couple of years and plan to spend 4 or 5 months of the summer in Kalkan and hopefully the grandchildren will come and spend some of that time with us, but as much as I love Kalkan, and long to be there when we are in UK, I don''t think I could make a complete break. I really admire the courage of those of you who have.
-
Do you not think that many of you are in love with the idea rather than the reality of retiring to Kalkan? To be so certain now that you will want to retire there in 10 or 20 years time seems unrealistic to me. I try and imagine what Kalkan will be like so far in the future and do wonder if it will still hold the charm that it does today - I hope it does.
-
Hi Linda,
yes we have met. Graham and I remember seeing you in the Moonlight Bar! When are you going back? We are out 12th June and also fly out in September so might see you for an Efes (or if Gill and Alan are there make that an Efes or 6!)
-
We have lived permanently in Turkey for the last six years, working in Ankara for much of that time. We have had a house in Kalkan since 2000, and until last year, spent five years commuting between Ankara and Kalkan. In mid-winter we would leave Ankara when the snow was a metre deep and the temperature had been minus ten for weeks and after an eight hour drive, arrive in Kalkan with blue skies, brilliant sunshine and a temperature of 18 degrees.
Now we live here permanently and have a truly wonderful life. We have many good friends both Turkish and English and interestingly,unlike in the UK, where our friends were mostly our age, here they are of all ages. In Kalkan each week we have art classes, line dancing, Pilates, yoga and Turkish classes. A gym has just opened and we regularly go to lectures run by a historical society. There is a garden society in Kas, and several groups of both a cultural and sporting nature we could join in Fethiye if we wished. We walk a lot (exploring the mountains in autumn and spring is quite magical), tend the garden, visit friends, read, listen to music and never have to be ruled by the clock. We have the luxury of time to ourselves and almost no stress.
We came to Turkey not because of any disillusion with the UK, we were very happy there and had good jobs and a very enjoyable life but because we wanted to be in Turkey, to have new experiences, to be exposed to a different culture and to embrace a completely different lifestyle. There are some unhappy Brits here, but they are a minority.They do seem to be at a loss in their new life and sadly, some of them have fallen into heavy drinking habits. In the main they seem to be people who came here because they wanted to get away from things they didn''t like about life in the UK not because they wanted to experience a different life in a very different culture.
We don''t confine ourselves to Kalkan. We regularly wander off the beaten track and consequently make discoveries which show us another side of Turkey, one which tourism has never touched. On one of our walks, just three miles from Kalkan, we sometimes stop for tea with an elderly lady who has never left her village, not even to go to Kalkan.
Several times a year we go to Istanbul to attend exhibitions or concerts. In the past year we have seen the internationally acclaimed Rodin, Picasso and Monet exhibitions and seen the New York Philharmonic orchestra and the Istanbul Symphony. Each summer we go to the Aspendos International Music Festival, a month of opera, ballet and music performed in the Aspendos Amphitheatre - a stunning setting and performers from around the world. We do more here culturally than we ever did when we lived in London and had everything on our doorstep.
We have very well priced medical insurance which gives us access to the top consultants and hospitals in the country. A couple of years ago, when I had a suspected heart problem, (thankfully a scare) I saw our GP in the morning, a consultant at two thirty and had a full diagnosis by four p.m.
When my partner partially scalped himself playing football in the dark with our dog (don''t ask) the cost of his immediate hospitalisation, brain scan and a week of subsequent out patient treatment was three hundred and fifty LIRA. (the brain scan was to try and discover what motivated him to play football in the dark with a dog)
We are lucky enough that family and friends come to us regularly and again, we see just as much of them as we did in the UK. One daughter in her 20''s now lives here permanently and through her we see an entirely different side of Kalkan life as she is much more involved with an active social scene.
I love being able to buy fresh seasonal produce at all the local markets and adapt my cooking to the seasons and what is available. I can discuss with the grower where the produce has come from, ask how to cook unfamiliar things and constantly make new finds. There is a market almost every day in this area, (none more than 25 minutes drive) each has its specialities and ''characters'' and is very much part of local life.
We do get frustrated by power cuts and in summer by the peaks and troughs of the voltage. Last summer we lost our refrigerator compressor and motor and had to wait weeks to get it repaired.The summer is too hot for us but we escape to the mountains regularly, even Bezirgan, just a twenty minute drive offers a refreshing break from the stifling heat.
The coastal climate of Kalkan is unique. On Sunday, when the temperature in the village was 14 degrees, we drove to Saribelen, seven miles from our house and walked through the snow, in a temperature of 1 degree.
We prefer the village out of season as we have the chance to spend more time with our friends . If we need the buzz of activity we go either to Kas or Fethiye. Both well served by shops and other services. Customer service in Kalkan and elsewhere is almost universally excellent. Yesterday, we looked at granite for a kitchen worktop, today the owner drove the twenty five miles from his workshop to here to measure up and on Saturday it will be delivered and installed.
We are not unrealistic about life here. We are both fit, healthy and very active. We are unsure if everything would be so straightforward if we couldn''t cope with the Kalkan hills but at this time in our life this is where we want to be. There are things we miss but more and more we are finding that what we are gaining here more than compensates. We have a quality of life which we could never emulate in the UK. Even today, on a cold, wet, mist shrouded morning, as I look across the bay or to the miles of fields which stretch from our door to the horizon, I am almost overwhelmed by the beauty and tranquility. The almond trees are starting to blossom, daisies are lining our drive, wild orchids are pushing through the soil and all is right with the world.
We know that this is not the life for everyone but we have never regretted our choice for a moment and as much as we do both love the UK, we have no desire to return.
So if you are thinking about a more permanent life here, good luck. If the opportunity presents itself, seize it.
Lantana
-
Lantana - thank you so much for that wonderful insight into your life both in Turkey and Kalkan, so pleased that you are enjoying it so much. Rather sad to hear about those who are unable to cope but that happens everywhere.
At the present moment the weather here is super, the sun is shining the blossom on the trees (all very early) the daffodils are blooming, its cold in the evenings with frost at night but I think would prefer it where you are.
-
Thank you Latana for a very informative and interesting post into your life in Kalkan. How lucky you are! I am very envious :D
-
Your life sounds wonderful Lantana. I''m very envious too.
-
Me too Lantana - what a wonderful posting - very envious - your life sounds just like I would like/imagine mine to be..!! :)
-
For the last few years we have both been telling everyone how we can''t wait to pack up work and go to Kalkan for good. We now have the opportunity as my husband has taken voluntary redundancy, we have sold our house in the UK, and have a few £''s in the bank. However, taking the step is proving to be very difficult. It is as if we have got this far and all of a sudden all the "negatives" keep coming into mind...how will we keep ourselves busy, are we too young (mid 40''s), will we drink too much, will we fit in etc., etc., etc.,
We purchased our lovely villa in 2004 and I often find myself day dreaming about the garden and wondering how tall the bougainvillea has got and whether the palms have survived in the pots that Soloman said wouldn''t (which I am sure he knows best). Although I am still working, I too am getting fed up with sales targets and the general pressure of the sales industry I am in but again, worry that I might be leaving the UK for the wrong reasons. So, the answer to your question is it''s not an easy decision to make...and I honestly thought I would never be saying this. All our friends and family keep telling us we should go, as someone has already said you only live once. We both love Kalkan and hate it when we have to come home but do we love it enough????? OMG, I can feel a sleepless night coming on!...what this space folks...will keep you all posted... ???
-
Limetree, Why don''t you give it a try few a few months? you could always come back if it didn''t work out. Could you take a career break from the company you work at?
One thing you should consider if your move was more permanent, is would you be prepared to return if things changed in the future? For example elderly parents needing you, arrival of grandchildren (sorry I don''t know your personal situation but I''m the same age and these are the things I would think about).
Very best of luck though, whatever you decide :)
-
Lantana,that was so interesting to hear about your life. May I ask if you speak Turkish well? I''m asking as to me that would be a pre-requesite of living in a country. And I note that you have worked in Turkey - so it''s a bit different from what we were contemplating which was retiring to a foreign country. When I was younger (much :D - ) I lived & worked in France for a few years & had I stayed on there I would probably be retired there now (but would not have met my OH). I do envy you your life in Kalkan but I don''t think we (personally) could have taken it on in retirement.
-
Lantana
That was wonderful! You wrote about everything we love about Kalkan, and I wish you joy in your life there.
Much as I love being in Kalkan, though, it''s still always going to be my place to escape to; I''ll stay here in the UK so that I''ll have something to escape from!!!!
Ros
-
We came first to Kalkan in 1990 and retired here in 2003. But we continue to spend the winters in other countries. In 2003 there was not much open in Kalkan in the winter, all of our friends were leaving, our children who live in Morocco could not afford to come to Kalkan with their families, my husband wanted to play golf and I was still playing a lot of tennis, we wanted to be near good medical and veterinary facilities at least some part of the year, so eventually after spending winters in Italy, France, Mexico and Spain, we finally bought a small seaview apt way up in the Elviria hills to the east of Marbella.
I agree with all that Lantana said, there are many things to learn and explore using Kalkan as a base. Like others have said, I have always tried to learn the language of the country I lived in and to integrate as much as possible. In Italy this was so much that I literally forgot a lot of English vocabulary.
However, after several hundred hours spent on learning Turkish, for the first time ever I feel it will be a formidable task to become fluent (must be my age!), whereas with only 6 weeks of Spanish I can easily communicate with people. Fortunately, all our Turkish friends speak English and I can speak enough Turkish to get along but not to have an interesting discussion.
Contrary to most of you who would like to retire, I would like to work! Retirement for me is boring and unstimulating no matter how I fill the time. I do miss the silversmithing classes I took in Boston, I do miss concerts and NPR radio, but to compensate, we have many more friends in several countries than we ever had working in Boston. Life has become much more social and relaxing that stimulating and exciting.
-
Hi Feds,
Enjoyed reading your aspect on life in Kalkan as it is something we consider on a regular basis. I am not sure whether we could do a full move; more like 6-8 months each year. We would undoubtedly keep our UK house on and have the choice of coming back if we need to for family / friends / potential work for the OH on a very minimal basis.
Last time we deposited a sum of money into our bank account in Kalkan, we were told that we would be earning in the region of 11% intereest. When we checked our balance 8 months later, the bank told us that the government had changed the system and that we did now not have an interest account? We were too green to check any of this out, but had been told by others that there is an account paying up to 15%. It seems as if this is the case, if you are already enjoying this facility and we would certainly like to transfer some funds across, if we are entitled to as we won''t be living there permanently.
I would welcome your advice on banks and options if you would not mind dropping me a PM.
Enjoy the Kalkan spring as we have had cold stormy weather of late! Not having been back since Sept 07, we are due out in May so are looking forward to coming ''home''. We have just returned from a fantastic week in the Red Sea with temps in the 30''s, beautiful beaches and fabulous clear dive conditions. However.....it ain''t Kalkan! The ''Magic'' simply isn''t there.
-
That was a wonderful post by the feds. The bit about management speak had me in tears of laughter!
Good luck to you both. I love your positive outlook.
-
I''m almost there Lantana! Se you soon
Serendip
-
Hi
In respect of an earlier message on this topic, some people are lucky enough to know a good thing when they see it, in this case retiring and spending much more time in Kalkan...even if that be in 20 years time!
Some people know where they would like to retire to immediately they see it, and some need more time to thing about things.
However that does not mean that one way of thinking is better or worse than the other, or they have not thought of many of the issues that will be faced in detail.
Em
-
Lantarna, I have just been very moved by reading your account of your life in Kalkan, I think you are really lucky as both of you seem to be of the same mind, I bought a beautiful villa in the Tuscan mountains 6 years ago I loved it but David my husband hated everything about it, his heart was and always will be in UK. The house is sold now and we have just bought in Kalkan a holiday home we both love Kalkan and have been visiting for the last 8 years and who knows maybe in time!!!
-
Hi Sue 1945
You are absolutely right, if you are part of a couple, both of you must be equally committed to and enthusiastic about your choice of lifestyle. Making a choice that suits one half but not the other is quite a risk, they might be won over, but equally might not. For us, the real motivator behind our decision was a love of Turkey and a belief that we could fit in with the culture.
The culture shock of the move to Turkey has been minimal, we have both been lucky enough to live in a number of different countries all our working lives so have had many years learning to adapt to different environments. The real shock has been life in a small village, nothing could have prepared us for the intimacy. When we first moved here, there were 8 permanent British residents (including ourselves) Naturally enough, we were all a source of constant amusement and interest to the Kalkan villagers. At that time we lived in the village (we are now 3 kilometres outside) and realised very early on that our concept of privacy and British reserve had no place here.
On one occasion, when I had quite severe food poisoning, the local doctor arrived with 5 male colleagues. I was very impressed. Such an abundance of medical expertise for a routine illness. The doctor spoke very good English. His colleagues spoke none, so every intimate question he asked me had to be translated for their benefit. They all had ideas about the cause of my complaint and conflicting ideas about the cure. They wanted extraordinary detail - which for the benefit of the squeamish I will omit here. Then, diagnosis and cure finally agreed amongst themselves they prepared to leave.
When I commented on how pleased I was to have so much medical attention, the doctor was rather bemused and explained that when he got my call, he had just been about to set off on a fishing trip and these were his fellow fishermen who had all wanted to come along to meet the foreigner. Not even a first aid certificate between them.
For days afterwards, wherever I went in the village, people asked after the state of my stomach.
For me, getting used to the idea that virtually everything we do is public knowledge within hours is far more challenging than coping with the complexities of the language or battling with local bureauocracy.
But as I write this at eight in the morning, on a beautifully sunny day, I take great pleasure in the fact that even at this relatively early hour, I have been greeted by three neighbours, had a discussion with the bread delivery driver about the weather (crazy, must be the fault of the Americans he claims) bought my fresh yogurt from the milk man and been sent a packet of seeds and a huge bag of salad by somebody I have never met but who lives nearby, because they had heard that I had admired their garden. What can beat that for life''s simple pleasures?
So perhaps in time you and David may feel that this is a place where you could both be happy. Living here doesn''t mean we don''t love the UK, we do, we just get far more from life here and live a life of simple pleasures but constant joy.
We do hope you will be very happy in your holiday home
regards
Lantana
-
my mrs went to DR cem for a bite that went nasty and made her ankle swell up...the dr was about to give her a shot up the bum,then we realised the taxi driver was still with us facinated by it all!! .wonder if he goes fishing?;D ;D
-
I''m sure he does now
Lantana
-
What a great gift you have for descriptive writing, Have you thought of spending some of your time writing a book or a column? You could possibly start a news sheet for Kalkan lovers. I too spent many years living and working all over the world, but David has always lived in the same small town only two houses whilst I have had 29.
Yesterday we attended a family funeral there were almost 500 peole there who all appeared to know each other, if not directly related. So it can have its ++++++''s.
Me, well I will be lucky if there are 20 at mine, but not to worry about it I won''t know
-
I am not sure if this is a topic which will be of interest to most people but we have decided to be buried here, hopefully not for a very long time. There is already a small non-Muslim cemetery adjacent to the village cemetery and it has wonderful views.(For the enjoyment of visitors rather than those staying there permanently).
Burials in a Muslim country take place within 24 hours of the death, in practice, this usually means on the same day. The local mosques call out the name of anybody who has died, and announce the time of the funeral. Here in Kalkan, only men attend the funeral but that is not always the practice in other parts of the country.
The body is placed in the ground without a coffin, wrapped in a shroud. You return to the earth as you came into the world, without any worldly goods. Having read in The Times the other day that the average cost of a funeral in the UK is now over £5,000, I like the idea of a simple burial so much better.
Lantana
-
A sad topic, Lantana but one that I think we should all consider. It makes things so much easier for the relatives who are left if they know what the deceased would have wanted.
-
Very interesting Lantana. After a person dies is cremation an alternative or is burial the only option?
-
Hi Turkeyfan
Unless you are prepared for a little d-i-y barbecueing, at the moment, cremation is not an option. However as you know, products and services here are constantly evolving to meet the needs of the growing foreign permanent resident community. I would imagine that before too long it will be an option in the larger cities. So for anybody looking for a surefire (pardon the pun) business opportunity, opening Turkey''s first crematorium could be it.
Lantana
-
i want a vikings burial..my longship will be set on fire and cast off into the sunset in front of thousands of weeping people while Wagners ride of the Valkyries blasts out...till i get that i''m not going!! ;)
-
OK blue lizard, we''ll arrange it , just let us know when. Will start recruiting the weeping thousands right now but will tell them they may have to wait another 40 years before they get their starring role.
Sounds like it will be quite a send off
Lantana