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Author Topic: Street Dog Debate  (Read 15633 times)

Offline kalkanview

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Street Dog Debate
« on: May 04, 2014, 08:45:22 AM »
Kalkan has KAPSA and has a bad street dog problem.

Kas does not have KAPSA and when you visit does not have a street dog problem.

Fethiye does not have KAPSA and when you visit does not have a street dog problem.

Antalya does not have KAPSA and when you visit does not have a street dog problem.

Do you get the trend?

CURRENT SOLUTIONS ARE CLEARLY NOT WORKING.


p.s. Well behaved dogs with responsible owners are a pleasure.


Linkback: https://www.enjoykalkan.com/forum/index.php?topic=12037.0
« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 08:54:11 AM by kalkanview »

Offline happy days

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Re: Street Dog Debate
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2014, 10:14:51 AM »
Kalkanview - we have been round the houses many times with this and any debate on the Forum tends to degenerate into a two camp debate with polarised views. However, evidence from the last few years KTLN surveys is absolutely crystal clear that the management of street animals is the major challenge facing Kalkan. I agree with your assessment  that what is in place is not working. More and more animals, particular large dogs, are appearing on our streets, dumped by irresponsible owners (and I use the word owner loosely) who know that KAPSA will pick up the care of their abandoned dogs. In Odtaalan we have a pack of around 12 dogs that congregate,  intimidate and run a mock at night time. In anyones eyes this is totally unacceptable.

A solution that works for all must be found. Hopefully the new mayor will take a more proactive stance than the previous and engage with those who love Kalkan and wish to see people and animals co exist in peace.

KAPSA has a crucial role to play in this, however, like you I fear that their good work in sadly counter productive in the dog dumping issue. Finally,  i often wonder whether the money raised would be better directed at a quality dog sanctuary? Just a thought.

Offline Clive

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Re: Street Dog Debate
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2014, 01:10:35 PM »
Kas has approx 300 dogs in a dogs home suitable for less than a 100 and is now having to neuter and return to the streets.

Fethiye street animal charity has worked with the local authorities in Fethiye for many many years.They have neutered dogs in the surrounding village,worked with owners and have a temporary dogs home for pups and any dogs unsuitable for the streets.They have proved that a neutering programme run correctly and long term works!

Kapsa have had no support from any authorities and was set up because of the street animal problems.Dumping has always been one way that the villagers have got rid of dogs.The other ways being poisoning and shooting.Kalkan has grown and more people are bringing larger breed dogs in as pets and quickly getting fed up with them and leaving them on the streets!! Just opening a dogs home and putting them all in will not solve this problem long term.We need to follow the Fethiye model and get out to all the villages and also have access to a temporary dogs home.If we take every dog off the street today how many more will arrive tomorrow?? Villagers are starting to bring animals in for neutering but with the force of the mayor behind it the progress could be rapid.Happy days is right the problem is not just with street animals but "owned dogs" too and is right is saying that the current efforts are not enough!

Kapsa is of course in discussions with the new mayor as is John from KTLN.I am sure we all want the same conclusion - less dogs on the streets and the matter resolved in a humane and long term way.Education is so important,together with a strong neutering programme in each village and of course a safe place for those animals unsuitable for the streets - both street and owned.Lets all hope our new mayor is a man of action!!!!



chickengeorge

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Re: Street Dog Debate
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2014, 03:19:18 PM »
The new mayor advised in his question and answer session before the elections that they would address the need for modern animal shelters. I suggest everyone concerned about the dog issue visit the Kas belediye website. There is english option and contacts section. Or just email info@kas.bel.t
The fact we are told that Kas has a shelter not suitable for the number of dogs does not mean Kalkan shouldn't have one. After all, there would be plenty of volunteers to ensure they are looked after. All kapsa members for a start.

Offline pirha

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Re: Street Dog Debate
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2014, 05:29:14 PM »
I actually hesitate to comment on this, because measured comments from Kapsa and its supporters are either ignored completely or simply not read at all.

Nonetheless, let's try to answer the points raised.

Kalkanview - Kaş does not have Kapsa, (Kalkan Association for the Protection of Street Animals) because that is a Kalkan organisation. It does have Kaş Animal Friends Charity, which has the same aims as Kapsa.

Kaş has an animal shelter, which simply cannot cope with the number of animals in it, currently 300. This is because as more and more animals are dumped in Kaş and put into a permanent shelter, no one is taking these animals back out, and more animals move into their place on the streets. Contrary to your claim, Kaş does have exactly the same problem with the number of street animals as Kalkan has, and for exactly the same reason.

That reason is that people in the villages dump unwanted animals, usually pregnant bitches or bitches with puppies in Kaş, exactly as happens in Kalkan.

Were you to speak to the vet in Kaş who has responsibilty for the shelter and the street animals she would tell you that although she has neutered all the street animals in Kaş town centre itself, they are snowed under with those dumped from the villages.

Fethiye was previously in exactly the same position. It had an organisation the same as Kalkan which struggled wih the problem because of lack of resources. However, it had and has an extremely supportive Belediye, which worked and continues to work with the voluntary organisation, and together they have brought the problem under control.

This has been done by building one, and only one, central temporary shelter, and I stress "temporary", where sick animals, injured animals, mothers with puppies or other animals which for whatever reason are not able to be left on the streets can be temporarily housed and treated. They are then returned to the streets, where they live in harmony with the communities.

They also have a major outreach programme which takes neutering and education out into the villages, and encourages people to bring their dogs for neutering.

I'm sure there is no one in Kapsa who would not welcome with open arms any initiative with the new Belediye, since no one is more aware than Kapsa volunteers the extent of the problem.
They are, after all, the ONLY people who are doing anything constructive towards solving it.

Kapsa volunteers are currently going out into the villages trying to educate people as to the benefits of neutering, but there are many villages and few volunteers, particularly since anyone doing this has to be a fluent Turkish speaker.
There have been major successes - the number of dogs being brought in for neutering from Akbel, from Islamlar, from Ulugöl, from Kördere, from Sarıbelen and from Bezirgan has risen hugely in the past year.
The Muhtar of Üzümlü has just contacted the organisation to ask for its help in neutering dogs from that village.
But what can be done by a small number of volunteers with limited resources is restricted.

Working together with the local authority, much, much more could be achieved. If, like Fethiye, we had one central temporary shelter where healthy animals could be neutered, and sick or injured animals treated, and an educational programme reaching the villages, that would be a huge start.

To achieve this, we need to get a good working relationship with the new Belediye, and this will require work, goodwill and major effort on all sides.
Kapsa members have been putting their own money, their time, their efforts and their energy into the problem for years. They are all, I'm perfectly sure, willing to keep doing so, and even to redouble those efforts.
If everybody else could and would offer the same goodwill, compassion and work, what couldn't we achieve! 
« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 06:04:07 PM by pirha »

Offline Tatilde

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Re: Street Dog Debate
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2014, 06:23:16 PM »
Thanks pirha. The most sensible post that I have read on the subject.

Offline don

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Re: Street Dog Debate
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2014, 08:34:03 PM »
I agree with what Happy Days says, but I find the whole subject of "The Dogs" is bit like eating candy floss, every time you try to get your teeth into it, it dissolves to nothing.

Offline happy days

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Re: Street Dog Debate
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2014, 09:26:55 PM »
I agree with what Happy Days says, but I find the whole subject of "The Dogs" is bit like eating candy floss, every time you try to get your teeth into it, it dissolves to nothing.

Don. A great analogy. I guess one of the reasons for this is that it is a hard nut to crack and therefore easier to discuss bag shops and restaurants.  Anyway I am sure that those who live and spend a lot of their time  in Kalkan and have a real desire to effect a change to one of the biggest negatives of this fabulous place will work to find a solution - boring or not. Finally, is debate and discussion not what Forums are about where constructive input may well help find a solution? The post from Pirha gave excellent info to counter previous input on this subject.

Offline don

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Re: Street Dog Debate
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2014, 10:30:56 PM »
Happy Days, it's true Pirha has made some valid points about the dog situation.
Let's hope one day things will improve. Someone has to give honest views on tricky
Subjects, keep the good work up. Let's ALL Enjoy Kalkan.

Offline amber

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Re: Street Dog Debate
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2014, 12:05:09 PM »
Thank you Clive and Pirha,very informative posts.

Offline kalkanview

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Re: Street Dog Debate
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2014, 09:31:31 PM »
The big problem with Kapsa and the post from Pirha is that they WANT dogs on the street.

Infact the objective appears to be aimed at humans and street dogs living together harmoniously.  Get real!   It might have been possible when it was a sleepy fishing village but not now?  These are feral dogs running around uncontrolled.  They need to be taken off the streets to avoid more dog attacks (that’s dog on dog and dog on human), vehicle accidents and general nuisance.
 
I welcome the Kapsa work to improve the lives of street animals but it should not happen on the street.  It also encourages animal dumping the main cause of the problem and probably the reason the situation is so much worse in Kalkan compared to neighbouring Towns.

Some will say those on this side of the argument are anti dog, but there are plenty of dog owners from the UK who are shocked by the number of street animals in Kalkan and I for one very much enjoy well behaved animals with responsible owners.  It’s hugely ironic that these very owners are amongst the worst affected since they have great difficulty taking their dogs for a walk on a lead without being attacked by the street dogs...and I mean attacked.

It will take many, many years for neuter and return to have any chance of working and by then what of Kalkan?  It is marketing itself as a safe upmarket resort not an animal sanctuary. Less tourists means less jobs for Turks

I also question why the “Kapsa” bloke in his White Ford Focus is allowed to feed the dogs around Kalkan including down the road from me on a daily basis without at least asking neighbouring properties first?  As a direct result of this we have a pack of up to 10 dogs rampaging around the area causing havoc.  Not long ago they entered a private garden and killed a cat leaving orphaned kittens (which are being cared for).  Furthermore an apartment complex in the area is having to install gates at each entrance just to stop the dogs running around at night.

Neuter and education is good but Kalkan needs so much more.   

I hope the new mayor will accept responsibility and take action before the local economy is damaged or someone is badly hurt again. 

By all means work with Kapsa on the welfare and education side but free the streets from the dog menace and let Kalkan and its people prosper whilst the dogs see out their days outside town supported by all the people of Kalkan.  For example the Belediye could increase council tax for all dwellings and businesses by a small amount and use this money for creating and running a shelter out of town. 

How can Kapsa not be happy with that?



« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 09:40:17 PM by kalkanview »

Offline don

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Re: Street Dog Debate
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2014, 10:15:58 PM »
I could not have said it better myself,total common sense and logic to a quicker solution.
Long term plans have increased the problem with no real progress being made.
Why do people suddenly take to writing on this forum about dogs, because it has got out of hand.
Kalkan is for all not just the few.

Offline satovod

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Re: Street Dog Debate
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2014, 11:39:37 PM »
I think Kapsa need to choose what that day in advance to warn all dog owners, get in the car, drive around the city and catch every dog ​​that barks or run for this car. Each. After that, wait for a week and if this dog owners do not take they, put to sleep.

A month later, repeat.

Everyone who is against such a plan shall to take a dog from the street and take full responsibility for he. Do not want or can not? Then at least should do not interfere.


(I have adopted dog)

Offline Hannah Smith

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Re: Street Dog Debate
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2014, 07:11:32 AM »
would the belediye employ someone full time to put all these animals to sleep? i very much doubt it, So would the vet be happy spending his days putting healthy animals to sleep?

Offline kalkanview

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Re: Street Dog Debate
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2014, 09:17:23 AM »
would the belediye employ someone full time to put all these animals to sleep? i very much doubt it, So would the vet be happy spending his days putting healthy animals to sleep?

I think you need to re-read my post??

Offline happy days

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Re: Street Dog Debate
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2014, 10:58:56 AM »
I think the main reason that this issue crops up again and again is the pure frustration from those who see no progress in finding a resolution to one of the biggest problems we face in Kalkan. There are many rumours about meetings etc but until we see some firm proposals coming forward then its inevitable that people will vent their frustration through this forum. You can only stand so much sleep depravation or run the dog gauntlet so many times before you blow your top.

The new Mayor and authorities have a huge role to play in finding a solution. Despite the views of the traditionalist, he has a stated desire to promote Kalkan as a boutique tourist resort. The dog problem is without question a major negative in achieving this goal.

I have often called for a get together of the main players to discuss options on how to find a way forward but never had any progress on this front.

If I am mistaken and progress is being made then for everyones sake can someone please enlighten us all on what that is.

Finally, I have said many times that Kapsa and others do great work in caring for the welfare of street animals but, for whatever reason, the problem still exists and in my opinion is getting worse. Lets try to find a solution that would stop us all having to discuss this chronic problem.


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