Responsible Dog owners

[zola]

As the person who started off this debate i would like to say that my intention was not to dig out KAPSA. I think KAPSA should be the peoples represensitive of what should be done to the powers that be on the subject to try to solve this problem. KAPSA i have no problem with, they do they're best and i am not knocking them. They actually have a voice that people reconise.
I am hacked off with dogs attacking me and my dog when i walk him. But on seeing some of the comments i have to answer a few questions. 
I was a dog handler. I also worked for many years in quarantine. So i do know what i am talking about!
Kevincat99....yes there is a vaccine for rabies, but i am 100% sure none of the street dogs or cats for that matter  have this. The reason why is the cost! I could be wrong but am sure i am not!
Kalkankediler.....Animals that can be a real danger to other animals /people can be put to sleep.
BUT you can't simply get rid of healthy animals that might chase a few cars or bark a bit.
When i first came to Kalkan i with my friend witnessed a scooter being chased by 4 dogs. The driver of the scooter was bitten, fell off his bike, outside the local health centre as luck would have it, but had his leg bone pointing out of his leg because the dogs had caused a serious accident. Is that a problem or not? Should the dogs involved be put down? who paid that mans hospital bills? FACT. The dogs may chase a few cars but they cause accidents, the dogs go free the victims suffer the costs!
Bella..... comments about a dog handler, I AM A DOG HANDLER. My first lesson was that a nervous dog is a dangerous dog. How many nervous dogs do we all see every day?

Take into account that dogs are pack animals, we live in Turkey so what! The answer is not if you don't like the dogs don't come to Kalkan. There is a problem here and i don't care if people like it or not, Living in Turkey or the Uk is not the issue i couldn't give a damn, but something needs to be done and fast!
If i moved back to the UK i would take my dog,  but if i didn't are you telling me that the vet wouldn't put my dog down if i asked him to? There are too many do gooders here trying to protect the dogs, Get a grip these people and let normal people live they're lives, no we are not in the UK but if you were in the UK this situation would not even apply!!!
I have travelled all around Europe and have not in any of the 14 country's that i visited seen such a lash up on these street dogs! Get the vans out and cull the things. It works.
Be warned. The dogs are too big and too many.  Turkish or English There is a major problem, address it now or suffer the consiquences. Take it from some one who knows!!!!!!!!

[Wally]

Chrissybaby - Well put & forceful! Its about time the majority who view this problem as serious stop pandering to the views of the do gooders who have helped in creating this problem!

[amber]

Guess I would be classed as a do-gooder as I am a member of Kapsa and trying to do something about the street animal problem.I call it a problem because it is one.
This isnt an official Kapsa reply or anything,just my do gooding thoughts!!
There are too many dogs on the streets-many are Turkish owned.There are laws concerning owned dogs that the local authorities can implement but dont.We have to understand that ownership in Turkey doesnt mean the dog will be kept in the house but some dogs are totally unsuitable for the streets and should be kept in the owners garden under control and registered.
Dangerous street dogs should be removed from the streets and I do know cases where this has happened but there shoud be an official procedure and again the local authority must be involved.
Neutering and eduction in surrounding areas would reduce the number of street dogs dumped.The imam in Akbel has already asked for help in this matter.Dumping of animals needs to be veiwed seriously too but is happening all over the world.
Such organisations such as the World Health Organisation and RSPCA have made studies on street animal populations and they all recommend the neuter and return policy.This means that the animals on the streets are neutered,vacinated and returned to their own area.
So the choice is to know what dogs are on our streets and that they are healthy,neutered,vacinated and registered or to cull.Which would mean culling on a regular basis as more arrive.More will always arrive.
If Kalkan decides on the cull option I for one will take my cats and leave.
Living in the town I am in contact with a lot of turkish people and although they too see the animals as a problem,as I do, I have never heard one of them suggest culling is the answer and they are very offended and angry to think that tourists/ex-pats believe they would want it to happen.
I will continue to work with Kapsa in trying to involve the local authorities as I believe it is the only way forward.If Kapsa is driven out of town and a mass cull is undertaken it will be a very sad day for Kalkan.
As I said these are my personal thoughts and I am not writing on behalf of Kapsa

[Denners]

Amber, whilst I agree with the very sensible neutering policy, you are not offering any solution to the increasing street animal population which everyone wants !

[amber]

There has been a lot of research done on the control of street animal populations and a long term neuter and return programme together with an education programme is viewed as the only long term solution.

[Denners]

And its not working in Kalkan because of the misguided winter feeding programme and the lack of responsibility and action of the authorities !

[Random]

Denners I agree with you that the Belidiye should do something about the problem and work with Kapsa who are the only people doing anything to try to solve it at the moment! But I am curious, What, in your view would happen if Kapsa didn't feed the dogs and cats in the winter?

[Enişte]

Here we go again!  Lots of unreasonably emotive language (do-gooder, misguided etc) and the demand for a solution which is simply not there, short of destruction of some animals (a polıcy that would need to become a regular event) or the provision of a dog pound.  Personally, I agree with an earlier post that feeding of some dogs, whether by restaurants, kind-hearted Kalkanites or by KAPSA is a good thing, and turns hungry, angry dogs into better-fed and hopefully better-behaved dogs.  How to stop them barking or packing is another challenge.

[saskia]

I didn't really want to get into this topic as it seems to me that we are just going over issues that have been discussed so many times before. However, I felt I had to answer Chrissy baby's comment about rabies vaccinations for animals:

I was a dog handler. I also worked for many years in quarantine. So i do know what i am talking about!
Kevincat99....yes there is a vaccine for rabies, but i am 100% sure none of the street dogs or cats for that matter  have this. The reason why is the cost! I could be wrong but am sure i am not!

For the last 18 months EVERY dog that we at Kapsa have had neutered has also been vaccinated against rabies. Every dog is also registered with a photo and a note is taken of its tag number and where it came from. The form also has the rabies vaccination sticker on it with the date and the vet's stamp and signature.
You are right about one thing though Chrissy Baby - it is expensive, hence all our efforts at fundraising.

[chickengeorge]

The arguments on this thread seem to drift from one extreme to another without coming up with anything constructive. Obviously everyone is frustrated with the situation but the options on how to deal with it vary significantly. I love animals but can see something needs to be done. Having read through, the only consesus (even with KAPSA) is that the belediye needs more involvement. Would it not be possible to raise a petition with both foreign residents/owners and Turks. I'm sure it would get 100s+ support from the local community to be presented to the belediye so they clearly get the message and start to assist the work that Kapsa already do or help with alternatives. The survey highlighted this subject had most complaints but what's the point in completing the survey if no action is taken. 

[maryjane]

Chickengeorge,
At last some sanity!   Brilliant idea!

[butterfly]

There are stray dogs in Kalkan who are well known and well loved because they are sweet and gentle and affectionate.  However, I find the packs of dogs around the Kalamar Road and roundabout frightening and I have heard of people being bitten by them.  They are also very worrying when they chase cars and bikes.  Could I suggest that these packs be rounded up and put in a Dogs Home somewhere outside the village which could be supported by charitable donations rather like Battersea Dogs Home. 

[saskia]

Please take time to watch this video, it only lasts 4 minutes but I think sums up brilliantly what we at Kapsa are trying to do! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q_WAl8_xBI&feature=relmfu. Thank you.

[kalkankediler]

All the organisations around the world who have researched this problem for a lot longer than we have, must surely have a better idea than some of those who have commented re culling... maybe time to investigate, learn and listen... and ultimately hopefully help and support us...

[Blue Lizard]

i trust that those that don't agree with KAPSA and regard them as "do gooders" won't be attending fund raising events?   i suspect you would be as welcome as a trump in an astronauts suit

[kalkankediler]

One thing that stuck out from the WSPA video, that most of the 'bashers' dont seem to acknowledge, is that these organisations try to work 'within the bounds of local cultural sensitivity'..... and that seems to be what you are all fighting about... so stop fighting, help Kapsa raise more money, and the more we get neutered, the more we can help with education re neutering, which has already improved so much, the sooner there will be less animals dumped and less animals on the streets....

[kevincat99]

Can I ask someone from KAPSA what role do the Belediye play in this problem?

Do they do anything or are they just happy to sit back and push all the responsibility onto KAPSA for this problem

Do the Belediye have any funds either through local taxes or through Central Government funding to help deal with this problem and if so do they use them for this ?

It's all very well KAPSA appealing for more cash but are there other funds available which could be utilised?

[pw]

Ultimately though, if feeding and neutering continues, more and more, albeit sterile, dogs will  be on the streets until they pop their cloggs of natural causes. Some will be docile and some will be aggressive but they will be everywhere!

Kapsa members/supporters have previously stated that Turks from outlying villages and towns dump their unwanted animals in kalkan because they know that they will be fed so how can the situation NOT spiral out of control?

There have been a lot of opinions expressed and it is clearly an emotive issue and more complex than it would first appear. I certainly don't have the answer (well actually I thought I did at one point but it turns out I don't) but I just can't see how the situation in Kalkan will improve unless something different is done and I guess that will need the buy in of the locals / local authority and that must mean "getting rid" one way or another of some/all of the abandoned animals.

[timeless]

I  live in Saribelen and packs of dogs are regularly dumped in the village.   In the last assortment of large dogs left here to fend for themselves one was a tricolour amputee on three legs! Someone must of paid for that operation.  These dogs are as bigger menace here as they are in Kalkan with humans,cats, chickens, sheep and goats to attack which they do.
A lot of the villagers here no longer have dogs either can't afford to feed them or regard them as to much trouble. Those that do prefer a dog rather than a bitch. Mostly its the shepherds that have the dogs now.

When we first moved here the villagers laughed at us for neutering our animals now they come and ask us if we will do the same for their cat or dog and Thanks to Kapsa we can do this.

Slowly slowly the mindset is changing.

As an aside a few months ago an old couple asked if we could get their dog neutered. We asked them not to feed the dog as the anaesthetic would make it sick.  Once Ibrahim had given the injection the dog began to vomit copious amounts of corba. The old man had come with us and we said we did ask you not to feed her. He said we didn't  we gave her soup to drink............which is oviously not quite the same as eating.

[tiger]

  ???I actually despair with the continuing 'we do this' 'you are wrong' 'no were not, be educated watch this' It is acknowledged that this topic re-occurs every now and again but just like all British we moan, hate the government, change this but still vote the same crowds in everytime, this topic is the same! Why don't we just forget it all? I have already offered to be apart of representation to the Mayor. If we cannot meet, discuss and try,lets all stop this topic as words seem to mean more than action In closing KAPSA are trying in their own way BUT MY FRIENDS YOU ARE FAILING WITH YOUR POLICY! If you were actually on the right track this topic would not keep coming up & people would not be threatened! I tell you what lets just say the majority are wrong and misguided & KASPA have all the answers and let us close our eyes and let them get on with it If anyone as any problems how dare you complain because you are the majority & no nothing LETS THROUGH THIS FORUM ARRANGE A MEETING OF ACTION, LETS  DISCUSS A PLAN AND MOVE FORWARD OTHERWISE LETS DISCUSS DALAMAN TRANSFERS!