Responsible Dog owners

[kalkankediler]

Can all those people talking about culling, simply read the Turkish law relating to animal rights in THIS country, and accept that they cannot apply their own rules to this country.... Animals that are a real danger to other animals/people can be put to sleep, but you simply cannot get rid of a healthy animal that might just chase a few cars and bark a bit.... At least, not in Turkey... and thank goodness for that!

If we had more time, we could let you know the number of female dogs we have neutered, and calculate how many more dogs would be on the street had we not done that.... So please, keep on helping Kapsa do what we can to restrict the number of animals - in accordance to the Turkish law.

[misty]

Maybe if the mayor gets bitten on the back side something will be done 

[itstime]

People suggesting a cull or euthanising healthy animals need to remember that it is illegal to do so in Turkey. The law as I have read it seems perfectly clear. What are KAPSA to do? They spend time and money raising funds for the neutering programme which if fundraising is harmed by a "picket" of an event, will be reduced thus resulting in even more dogs.
Encouraging people to become responsible owners is a priority and only time will tell if it has a positive effect. I have no first hand knowledge of the situation this year as I've not been out yet but will continue to support the work that KAPSA do within the laws of the country they live in

[Wally]

I was talking to a well known taxi driver in Kalkan, he told me that last week a Turkish man was bitten on the leg and had rabbies injections in his stomach? Does anyone really fancy going through this for the sake of so called 'lovely dogs'?
Reading the comments which it is suggested the mayor takes no notice of the problem, it maybe that it is raised by what he thinks, non residents of Turkey? I suggest that the people who have residency are asked if they are happy or not with the dog situation, if not then the group or nominated persons, with translator petition the mayor in person! My attitude to any problem as always been, if it is solved easy it was never a real problem anyway but if it needs working on then work on it!  It is no good, as someone said earlier just keep on moaning about the subject, changes for the better are always the most difficult.
I will say that I am more than willing, as a resident of Turkey to submit, discuss, petition or whatever to the mayor any mandate on the dog problem as agreed by residents! IT REALLY IS THE TIME TO DO SOMETHING!!!      

[headroom]

 There are various comments on here in favour of and opposed to the stray dogs, what has to be remembered is that these dogs are fundamentally feral, they in many cases, were dumped in Kalkan as puppies and just had to survive or die, the odds are that many do not survive.
  As a result of the undeniably well intentioned actions of KAPSA, many are thriving, but as with anything in nature it is the strong who survive, often at the cost of the less able/weaker of the species which are destined to a painfully slow death from malnutrition.
  The strong survivors become emboldened and despite the kindliness of their human providers have almost a contempt for humans, they have no understanding of the principal of hierarchy, indeed once in packs they seem to see themselves as the superior dominants and as such become a serious threat to humans who show fear. It is a very real possibility that one day there will be serious attack from such a pack which could result in horrific consequences.
  I do not advocate the indiscriminate culling of animals but with the best will in the world the efforts of KAPSA are not enough, the local authorities must accept responsibility and do something with regard to rounding up the strays, either finding homes for them or humanely disposing of them.

[amber]

Kapsa are working within the guidelines of such organisations as the World Health Organisation and the RSPCA.We work within the Turkish Animal rights laws.
We have tried very hard over a long period of time to work with the Kalkan Belidye without success,they are just not interested in even talking about the problem.Yes we agree the street animals are a problem but at least we are trying to do something about it.
Last year there was a big article in one of the UK newspapers about a tourist town in Greece and the culling done at the end of each season-there was an outcry and their tourist trade was badly effected.Tourists in Kalkan are usually very pleased to hear we have a programme for neutering and vacinating the street dogs.Of course we do not want to see dangerous dogs on the streets and we have taken positive action on a number of occasions to remove such animals.
Kapsa has more Turkish members than foreigners and that is important to be aware of.
We are also trying hard to advocate responsible ownership and support from the mayor in this matter would help very much.
I would ask everyone who is writing on this subject to learn as much as they can about it and lets all work together for a better Kalkan.

[jacaranda]

Visit any other village around here and you never meet any significant numer of dogs. Why? They are probably rounded up by the local people and taken away (dumped in Kalkan?) on a regular basis. Sad but true.
The majority of people i have spoken to in Kalkan have alot to say about the policies of KAPSA, and none of it is good. No doubt they will be well supported at the next fund raiser, however alot of local people are reluctant to go and actually spend money, they go for the social aspect. Every one knows they work hard to make a success of their fund raising events, all credit to them, but they might gain more support locally if they also donated to causes involving human beings.
If you are a visitor to Kalkan do not be fooled to think that KAPSA represent the foreigners view on dogs locally, they are a tiny minority.
Just a parting thought, would you be happy with a pack of wild dogs at the end of your street in the UK, barking all night and knowing your children would be walking through them every morning? And would you be donating money to feed these dogs year round?

[misty]

Jacaranda...your parting thought is bang on the money.......

[Arzu]

burası kalkan buraya gelirken köpek istemiyoruz diya bir sözleşmemi imzalıyorsunuz ki ne hakla bu hayvanların uyutulmasını öne sürüyorsunuz?Ayrıca uyutmanın bir çözüm olduğu kanısına nasıl varıyorsunuz ? Diyelim ki kalkandaki tüm köpekler uyutuldu daha bundan sonra hiç köpek gelmeyecek mi ?Ya çevre köydeki köpekler ne olacak bu sorun sadece kalkan'a mı ait?Kesinlikle bu kabul edilinebilecek bir olay değilllllll....

And this in English means;
This is Kalkan, when you come here did you sign some sort of contract that said that you didn't want any dogs to be here? What right do you have to say that these animals should be put to sleep? Anyway, what makes you think that putting them to sleep would be a solution? OK lets say we put all the dogs in Kalkan to sleep, after that would no other dogs come to Kalkan? What about the dogs in the villages around Kalkan? Do you think this a problem special to Kalkan? What you suggest is definitely not acceptable at all!!!

[itstime]

Jacaranda, with the greatest respect we are not discussing a UK problem, we are discussing a "problem" in Kalkan, Turkey, so what may or may not transpire within the UK has little to do with the debate. At the risk of boring everyone to death and repeating myself, there are laws in Turkey which must be respected and obeyed. KAPSA , whilst recognising that there are some ongoing issues are at least trying to do something about it, including having dialogue with the elected representative of the people of Kalkan. What else do you expect them to do?

[howmad]

Itstime, perhaps they could stop the indiscriminate feeding of dogs and the insane desire to re-home every stray dog. If anybody wants to actually read the literature of WHO they would see that these organisations state that the food resources must be controlled and that stray dogs must be stopped from entering the area for the policies of neutering and returning to be effective. Perhaps someone should also ask the question why are the Belidye so reluctant to help when it is their responsibility. Could it possibly be foreigners trying to tell them what they are or are not allowed to do in their own country?
 

[itstime]

Couldn't agree more with you about the role of the Belidye. Seems like they may be reluctant to become involved for whatever reason

[kalkankediler]

If Jacaranda looked into it more thoroughly, then he/she would know that there are as many Turkish people on the Kapsa team as foreigners... oh and yes... they are local people too!

[kalkankediler]

And if you could let us know where this wild pack of dogs is, then we could look into it, rather than just stirring up problems on the Forum....

[Bella]

I thought I had better stand up and be counted instead of just muttering in the background.

Did you know that if there was a good dog handler in the area they could assess these street dogs for their suitability for training for use by the Army, Poilce, and Customs, or for Guide Dogs for the blind etc and of course for suitability as pets? I also gather from a friend who did this, rescued street dogs, it can be a very lucrative business, certainly it could cover expenses incurred. Granted the handler must really love dogs and know how to spot the animal's potential to do this successfully.

Any dog that bites without provocation should be put down. Agressive dogs should wear a muzzle, I admit I do not know if the latter is a realistic treatment for a street dog, question of feeding and also their safety re. attacks by unmuzzled street dogs.

I wish I knew the answer, but there are so many factors to be considered, not least that animals lives are not regarded in the same manner by all cultures.

But what do we do when a human attacks and hurts or kills another human or behaves in a bullying or intimidating manner or causes real disruption to society?
Should  dogs not receive the same treatment?

I shall support KAPSA's fund raising event, because they are at least TRYING to do something even though it is apparent that not all agree with them and I would like to think they would take on board any viable and constructive ideas.

Is there a "Solomon" out there?

[Denners]

Kapsa's good work on neutering is an obvious way of keeping down the animal street population and is to be commended.

What I can't agree with is the winter feeding programme. The animals are well fed during the summer by tourists and the restaurants, and then fed by Kapsa in the winter.  However it is a policy to increase the street animal population, not reduce it. For that reason I will not support Kapsa. They are well intentioned but misguided.

Could someone tell me where in Turkish law it says that the street animal population have to be fed in winter ?

Wally and John Fed made some good suggestions.
1. KTLN (as a matter of urgency) must run a poll to get an accurate view of what both foreign and Turkish residents think. If Kapsa are too busy (why ?) to do it, I am happy to help. with some suggestions.
2. Representations (with the poll results) should be made to the Mayor as it is their responsibility !! They must be made to act (humanely) to reduce the street animal population.

[Bella]

Kalkankedlier - just walk around Kalkan especially in the evenings - you are bound to see packs of dogs. - it is natural for dogs to pack. Most of the dogs here are really only seeking attention and are not a problem, unless you have a fear of dogs.

To visitors and non-Turkish Residents.

I would point out that stray dogs are less of a problem to us than gangs who roam the streets of most inner cities and towns in the UK. There it is not safe to walk out at night (and sometimes during the day)

However there are obviously things that could be done IF the Turkish Residents wish it.

REMEMBER we ex-Pats chose to live here, and we knew "the state of play" or should have  before we settled here.
REMEMBER we Brits do not like some of the changes being imposed upon us in the UK because of Immigrants. Therefore why should the Turkish population like it when we try to do the same here.

An up to date pole with some constructive suggestions might perhaps be a good idea.

AND if you have an unfortunate encounter with dogs, note the problem dog and report it to the Mayor's Office.

A suggestion to KAPSA, I notice that you are putting collars on some of the dogs, why can they not be ones with "Bark inhibitors" Expensive I know, but I am sure donations towards this would flow in.

[kalkankediler]

Thanks Bella. Really do appreciate your constructive views... Think the comment I made though was for the wild pack that was mentioned at the end of Jacaranda's road... as you say, there are packs - outside my house included... but just couldnt say they were a wild pack... and if there are any that are being a danger, then of course we must look into it...

[kalkankediler]

Denners, thank you for saying that at least Kapsa are doing something good... a relief to hear that there is support re the neutering at least...

Re the winter feeding, we actually had Turkish people complaining that some dogs were hungry and eating their chickens... so we started feeding those dogs that had been missed out...

Experience has it - right or wrong - that if animals are not fed, they get more aggressive, become disease ridden, and from the point of tourism, would do nothing for Kalkan. Having been to Greece and Italy and seen for myself what happens, is that really the answer?

Kapsa is now getting lots of support from locals who now accept the value of neutering... school children are becoming more interested and in generations to come, hopefully everything will become better... but there is a lot to do and we do need lots of help to do it... Help from the Belediye, whose responsibility it really is would be great... but in the mean time, we do what we do.

If you go to Fethiye, the Belediye there have posted large posters, encouraging people to look after the street animals.... Nowhere in the Turkish law re animal rights does it say that you shouldn't feed them.

And, with the help of many Turkish and non- Turkish people, we do manage to find homes for many of the puppies dumped in Kalkan...

This is not directed to anyone in particular, but if we could all use our energies to find constructive ideas within the legalities of this lovely country, it would be more helpful to all...

[Wally]

  Its a pity Arzu that your comment comes across like this. You are correct that no ones signs a contract before coming to Kalkan! What you are not correct in is that you seem to think we want dogs 'put to sleep' for the joy of it? People who write to this forum are usually people who have had a experience with DOGS WHO ARE NOT OWNED & these dogs have caused either a scaring episode or who have attacked their pet or themselves. If a human acted to another human like this the Jandarma would take them off the street to stop this re-occuring! You maybe shocked at this Arzu but people do have more rights to safety than dogs! We know we are guests in Turkey & even us residents of Turkey wish to abide by Turkish law & customs that is why we live here and respect its people & customs with all our heart but it also the custom to look after guests? So my friend what we are trying do do here is discuss how we solve this problem as a community? Do not just say its unacceptable, contribute to a solution & let us say for all time this subject as gone away because if not then tourists will go away & then what happens in Kalkan?  

burası kalkan buraya gelirken köpek istemiyoruz diya bir sözleşmemi imzalıyorsunuz ki ne hakla bu hayvanların uyutulmasını öne sürüyorsunuz?Ayrıca uyutmanın bir çözüm olduğu kanısına nasıl varıyorsunuz ? Diyelim ki kalkandaki tüm köpekler uyutuldu daha bundan sonra hiç köpek gelmeyecek mi ?Ya çevre köydeki köpekler ne olacak bu sorun sadece kalkan'a mı ait?Kesinlikle bu kabul edilinebilecek bir olay değilllllll....

And this in English means;
This is Kalkan, when you come here did you sign some sort of contract that said that you didn't want any dogs to be here? What right do you have to say that these animals should be put to sleep? Anyway, what makes you think that putting them to sleep would be a solution? OK lets say we put all the dogs in Kalkan to sleep, after that would no other dogs come to Kalkan? What about the dogs in the villages around Kalkan? Do you think this a problem special to Kalkan? What you suggest is definitely not acceptable at all!!!