Villa burgled - 23 June 2008

[The Reds]

Hi,
Theres allot of good comments and excellent tips on how to minimise the problems caused by theft/burglary. I accept what everyone has said and it all makes sense. I don`t understand why people are using this site to points score or settle arguments. Personally I think the quicker something gets done in the real world the better, this web site, though very informative will not change anything outside.

I get the impression that''s its everyone for themselves, not my problem or just can`t be arsed. That''s fine to.

As I`ve already said a large group of committed residents could make the necessary moves with positive results. Its just you have to be willing to do it or just continue with this anonymous, in cyberspace , were so sorry, can`t help won`t help mode.

If its done right all residents, holiday makers, villa owners would benefit. Kalkan as a whole would benefit.

Jav

PS. I don`t know what the crime rate in Kalkan is. I don`t no whether its low or huge, because there`s no attempt to organise a residents group to look in to it or after its own interests.

[bryher]

After the severe comments from The Feds to my last missive I vowed not to write again. The current suggestions for the formation of some sort of resident''s association  is way over the top and woken me up. To make adverse remarks about either the Belidye or Gendarme or situation generally in Kalkan is really quite offensive to the indigenous Turkish population.
We chose to buy here knowing the political and social differences in our cultures. Presumably some even found them to be part of the Turkish experience.
Whilst I do not wish to incur the wrath of any of my British co-residents I do not want Kalkan spoiled as some parts of Spain have been spoiled by such ex pat associations. They so much affected spanish laws and customs that in the end the authorities  quite rightly rebelled. I do not consider myself an ex-pat but an englishman who has chosen to live in Turkey under Turkish law and custom. It would be presumptuous of me to even try to make changes.
For those who now have safety fears or other worries about life in Kalkan the answer is simply to move and not expect Kalkan to change to meet their expectations.
I think I was very misunderstood before and some of my thoughts unreasonably misrepresented. This post is meant most sincerely, I love living in Klakan and I know many others do. I also appreciate that it is no good wishing for a return to 10 years ago. We have to make the most of current circumstances but we really do not have the right to make changes.
The suggestion of a list of phone numbers and  even those willing to help is a splendid idea which I would support enthusiastically.
Thank you for reading this

[Enişte]

I think we may be reinventing the wheel on this subject.  Has anyone resident in Kalkan considered joining Kalkander (www.kalkander.org) or raising this matter with them?

Generally, I would like to advertise my work website, www.fco.gov.uk, which provides huge amounts of general advice about travelling overseas, money, driving, being a victim of crime etc, but also offers country-specific advice.

My concerns about setting up a support group are that a) such a group would perhaps absolve the Jandarma, police or belediye of any responsibility to help out victims of crime, or worse, offend them by suggesting that the British community had no faith in them, b) the next step might involve a register of Brits in Kalkan, neighbourhood watch and eventually, taking things to an extreme, vigilante groups and c) a British support group would perhaps isolate us from our hosts and other nationalities of visitor/resident.

[The Reds]

I get the message, lets not rock the boat. Heaven forbid you try to make things better or a little easier. Let the unfortunates sort it out themselves. I`m alright.

[Enjoy Kalkan]

If anyone has any useful telephone numbers they feel should be included in an EnjoyKalkan quick help card please email admin@enjoykalkan.com with the details.

Thanks

[Enişte]

Any chance of gates being installed around the village, while the roads are being dug up, to keep out undesirables?  It must be about time to lock this subject, to allow everyone to get all their toys back into their prams and realise that each of us is entitled to an opinion, but not always the same one.

[yoyo]

Can I just say that as someone who has been burgled here in the UK and mugged 3 times (the last one rather nastily) I for one still feel extremely safe in Kalkan as compared to walking down my own streets here at home!  Kalkan is no longer the small village it once was, it has many people now living and working there for most of the year, of course it is not going to stay the same safe haven with everyone knowing everyone else''s business as in a small village.  Unfortunately with growth there usually is crime somewhere at some point.  This isn''t something new,  I have heard over the last 5 years or so of various burglaries in Kalkan, including Turkish households, so it''s not just a ''British'' problem, as I am sure some of the forum members who are not British would agree with.  

[Cosetta]

Yoyo, you are correct that local Turks have been burgled too.  And many Turkish lving here will agree on the need for a regular police force with more authority and better staffed.  But it isn''t going to happen soon.

The incidence of crime is low, there are isolated burglaries mostly but not exclusively during the summer.  Seems to happen especially when there is construction of some kind going on.

A composite list of suggestions regarding security, published in this Forum, would be a helpful addition.

And if you don''t get results from the local Jandarma, call 156 and ask for someone who speaks English.  Ask that your complaint be registered.

[paul1969h]

HI
As a member of four, going to Kalkan in a private rented villa in AUG, i think the idea that JoanH said
is great, as we would feel better if you could just speak to someone who knows what to do when things
like this happen.
the idea of the print of sheet would also be great.
IF you can could you get this up and running so i can print it off b4 go

I still would not let this kind of thing put me off, as it can happen anywere, (more likley in the uk )
but it makes you remember that you still have to follow all the same rule as if you were still at home.

[marking]

Hello Cosetta,
  Thanks for the information regarding the need for a better police force with more authority and better staffed not happening soon, but where did you get this information, I have searced high and low to find out future plans for the police force here but have had no joy.
   Also, when you say the incedence of crime is low, again I can find no comparable statistics to back this up, where again did you get this information and can you share your source with us.
   And the last piece of your thread is a little confusing:                                                                   there are isolated burglaries mostly but not exclusively during the summer.  Seems to happen especially when there is construction of some kind going on.
   So most burglaries occur during summer costruction?
  any explanation would be greatly appreciated

[Mercimek]

A few years back most of the visitors to Kalkan would have had someone to contact in event of an emergency. When most of the visitors came through tour operators with representatives who are specifically there to help in such emergencies. Tour operators have an obligation to provide support in resort when illness, death or other emergencies mean the client requires assistance.

However now people are renting villas directly surely it is the owners of these villas who should provide an English speaking representative for their guests to contact in case of emergency. I don''t see why when people are making money out of renting their villas a charity/ free service should be provided for when their guests need assistance. I am sorry if some of you think this is harsh but I have always thought that whilst people believe it is cheaper to travel without a tour operator that is fine until they need assistance. There are many people in Kalkan who have the skills and knowledge of what to do/ is required when someone dies overseas, or is ill and taken to Antalya, or in fact when burgled but I am not entirely sure it should be expected for those people to provide a service (which let''s face it would involve being called out a a moments notice) free of charge.

Whilst working with a tour operator I have assited at times of death, hospitalisation, imprisonment (after a blameless car accident), burglary & much more and whilst the victims were most grateful at the time I wouldn''t expect anyone to provide that time/ level of support free of charge. For one thing it can be very draining on the individual.

[sally]

Making a couple of photocopys of your passport is a really good thing to do. Leave one at home & take one with you & (obviously) keep it in a different place to the real thing. If the worst should happen at least you have all your details to hand.

[jayne]

Mercimek,

I take your point, but the reason most people have turned to organising their own holidays and renting privately is because you have to pay above and beyond just the flight and accommodation when your travel with a tour operater.  I thoroughly commend you for being there when people have needed help,  but in my experience, the reps I''ve encountered over the years have only been interested in selling tours and are extremely hard to get hold of when you need them. The times we have really needed support on holiday, i.e illness, stolen property, they have generally pointed us in the direction of where we need to go and left us to it.

I think its a bit cynical to suggest villa owners are trying to get something for nothing, as it''s probably owners who are most willing to offer the support.

[Mercimek]

I don''t think this is the case with representatives of the better quality operators.

I guess it''s a case of you getting what you pay for but by travelling independently you loose the protections travelling with an reputable operator should provide, atol coverage in case of any of the suppliers going out of business, representative services and someone to go to for recompense in the case of mis-selling. For example at present there is building work in an area of Kalkan, if you are travelling with a tour operator and feel they should have told you, you at least have a line of complaint (through Abta if necessary), if you are travelling independently you have no route for complaint/ recompense or if a villa owner advertises a property is 5 minutes walk from Kalkan and it is 20 you have no comeback, however with a tour operator you have a justified complaint- particularly if they have advertised this in a brochure or on the internet. You also have cover from a tour operator if you book any additional services through them such as excursions.
What cover would you have if you booked such items directly though...say...an internet site?

[Lantana]

The points Mercimek makes are all valid. How many villa owners, renting to the public give their managing agent written instructions on what to do for their guests in case of emergency?. Most villa owners assume that if they employ a managing agent, emergencies will be handled appropriately but this is very hit and miss. How many owners give their guests 24 hour emergency contact numbers for an English speaking representative? I know most owners give local emergency numbers but as this thread illustrates, contacting these numbers rarely provides the level of support required

A written set of standards should be agreed with the managing agent. This could state  how emergencies should be handled and the standards of performance expected - response by phone, response in person, time taken to respond etc.  All sorts of possibilities could be covered, e.g. If a guest is robbed should the villa owner via the managing agent have an emergency fund so that the guest is not stranded?

Anybody renting a villa to the public is running a business and has responsibilities to the customers of that business. It would certainly appear from the original post here describing the robbery and its aftermath that the guests staying in the villa which was robbed received no help from the villa owner or the owners agent. If that is the case, that is an unacceptable failing on the part of the owner.

We  own an apartment in the village which is rented out for approx 24 weeks each season. That means a lot of customers rely on us for their wellbeing when they stay with us.

Because we live here permanently, we provide the emergency service. All guests have our 24 hour contact number. We give detailed instructions on what to do in case of any emergency and spell out how we will respond in any given situation e.g. lost passport, we will drive guest to consulate in Fethiye on the day loss is discovered. . Missed flight, we will contact their insurers and provide all necessary support until new flight has been found. Illness or accident, we will take the guest to the medical centre, or organise a home visit, obtain prescriptions etc.

We have had medical emergencies, lost passports, missed flights and lost luggage. Providing this service is time consuming and can be costly but it is part of the package we provide to our guests. If we did not live here and used an agent to provide this service, we would expect to pay over and above the usual management fee for this.

I know of at least one company which does provide this emergency service and charges a small weekly fee for doing so, so it is like paying an insurance premium.  Most of the time you will not need to call on them but when you do, they take care of everything at no extra cost.
 
If I were using a managing agent and renting my property, in the light of all that has come out of this thread, I would now be speaking to my managing agent as a matter of urgency to establish whether they are able and willing to provide this service and agreeing written emergency procedures.

As everyone who rents property here agrees, the competition increases every year. Property owners who go the extra mile to provide support services for their guests will have a competitive advantage over those who don''t.

Lantana

[sue1945]

I am so sorry for this terrible experience that visitors to Kalkan had when they rented a villa. I have an apartment that I rent out through a managing agent who has a Manager based in Kalkan who is there to deal with any problems.
Having just returned from Kalkan myself and spent most of the time in the complex, I noted that many kinds of people visit during the day including workmen and delivery men. Our apartments have a local man who works from 8.30 to 7pm every day, he is the best deterrant in the world as he questions everyone who comes on site including visitors. Please do not be put off, Kalkan is probably safer than most places in Europe to holiday and that would include UK

[Enjoy Kalkan]

Hi,

I just wanted to pick up on a post by Mercimek, "You also have cover from a tour operator if you book any additional services through them such as excursions. What cover would you have if you booked such items directly though...say...an internet site?"

If this comment was directed at EnjoyKalkan I would like to confirm that you have exactly the same level of cover as excursions are provided by a fully Tursab registered agency that provide to many other companies.

[Mercimek]

It wasn''t directed at anyone, but now you mention this what insurance cover would you have when booking through Enjoy Kalkan?
If a client went on an excursion was injured as the initial ''agent'' what liablility would Enjoy Kalkan carry?

[Enjoy Kalkan]

Mercimek,

I shall answer this in the excursion FAQ''s more fully in order to keep this thread on topic however all EnjoyKalkan excursions include full insurance by Tursab lıcence number 2497

Cheers
Jon

[phillip]

DB,
  you went through a terrible experience that unfortunately happens no matter wherever you live or happen to be staying.The ordeal you had with the local police is no different to what you would have faced in most other countries and its sad to say that even in good old England the attitude to burglary is often similar.
 At a time when you are going through so much trauma police and even the best insurance people can seem so distant and may not be able to assist when you are on holiday due to language barriers and paper work which can leave you feeling so helpless and alone.
 This is the time when even the smallest gesture of kindness from strangers can help and you found that in Murhat and his staff.Turkish people are renown for their hospitality and this is just another example of how very special they.Not everyone finds themselves in a situation and is fortunate to have such kindness shown from people who we see as strangers and often it is at times like this that we see the best come out of people.
 What I have learned from your experience and from all the comments is that there is no easy solution when anything happens like this,but at least people on here dont bury their head in the sands like so many do and it must be comforting to you that it has made lots of us wonder what we may do if we are found in a similar position.I for one would not hesitate to try and find the use of a laptop and knowing the kind of people on here I would be the first one to ask for help and advice.I am certain that many might not think this the best advice but for one would be pleased of any kind of advice if found in a similar situation to you.

  Phillip

PS
 Four days to go and Shirley and I will be in Kalkan for the very first time. Cant wait !!!