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Author Topic: Another nail in the rental coffin! new regulation  (Read 5400 times)

Offline Cosetta

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Another nail in the rental coffin! new regulation
« on: June 15, 2017, 01:39:54 PM »
Anyone who rents out better read this, the implications are quite serious.  If you advertise on the Internet, the gov has collected info about your property and rental price.  If then you registered your property in the new Giykimbal software, they know when it is rented.  And they are REQUIRING you to deposit that money directly into a Turkish bank and identify it as "rental income".  Meaning, you cannot register guests without proving the payments.  High tax penalities!

https://www.yellali.com/news/article/456/tax-penalty-risk-for-daily-rentals-in-turkey

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Villa Incantata - http://kalkan-turkey.com

Offline hobbo

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Re: Another nail in the rental coffin! new regulation
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2017, 05:07:13 PM »
Again an article written by someone who is available to help property owners with registration and tax issues ...

I have a very responsible position...
When anything goes wrong I’m responsible!!

www.villa-in-kalkan.co.uk www.gyrapix.co.uk

Offline monthehoops

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Re: Another nail in the rental coffin! new regulation
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2017, 06:16:11 PM »
Yet another incoherent article with the principal aim of selling services. Those owners who rent out their properties in Kalkan on a commercial basis have a number of trusted companies to choose from, who will carry out registrations on their behalf. The established wisdom seems to be that those owners who don't advertise, and merely allow family or friends to use the property from time to time, have nothing to worry about. However Mr YellAli is proposing that they too should hire him to assist with registration.
As they say where I hail from - "gauny gie's a break".

Offline Cosetta

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Re: Another nail in the rental coffin! new regulation
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2017, 07:48:06 PM »
Here is the original source of this news:  hurriyet.com.tr - a Turkish journalist with no vested interest

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/yazarlar/ahmet-karabiyik/gunluk-kiralamalarda-vergi-cezasi-riski-40489245

Let our Turkish readers decide if there is truth or falsehood in this report.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, I agree, the report (as reproduced by yellali.com) per se is written by someone with an interest.  BUT ... the same news appeared in a Turkish newspaper last week.  My Turkish neighbors informed me about it.  It is the law, respect it or disregard it.  At least be informed.

I have little doubt that the gov is trying to link the giykimbal registration system with the rental income declared to banks.  I know someone who was fined 5,000 TL just 2 weeks ago.  So, up to each one to decide for her/himself.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 08:35:23 PM by Cosetta »

Offline monthehoops

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Re: Another nail in the rental coffin! new regulation
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2017, 09:31:33 PM »
Cossetta,
my principal point was, that contrary to what Mr YellAli appears to be suggesting, the conventional wisdom is that owners who do not rent their properties commercially do not need to register.  If new facts come to light and the preponderance of the evidence informs me otherwise, I will take the necessary actions. 

Offline Cosetta

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Re: Another nail in the rental coffin! new regulation
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2017, 08:04:03 AM »
Correct. Owners who do not rent and do not give their home to other persons in their absence have no obligation to register.  The news article in Turkish is informing only those who do rent.

Offline brian j p

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Re: Another nail in the rental coffin! new regulation
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2017, 09:07:26 AM »
Take it all with a pinch of salt,  the scaremongering that accompanied the registration process was way over board and it all  turned out to be a very simple process.  Even if there is something in the latest story it will probably end up as something that turns out to be as simple

Offline monthehoops

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Re: Another nail in the rental coffin! new regulation
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2017, 03:04:02 PM »
Cosetta, the advice that I have received and which is consistent with the research I have done independently, is that owners who allow family and friends to use their property, are not required to register those family members and friends. I have seen it reported that the aim of the regulations was to assist in the detection of criminals including potential terrorists and brothel keepers who it seems were booking rentals for a very short period, ie days as opposed to weeks. The authorities wanted to introduce a system to make detection of such people easier. Of course it may be a happy coincidence that the tax dept may also be able to increase its collections by monitoring property rentals.
You appear to imply that any person who gives his or her home to another person requires to register, irrespective of the fact that it is not advertised as available for rent or given for commercial gain. My sister and brother in law will be staying in my property for two weeks this summer. I am advised that I am not required to go through the rigmarole of registration, which appears to be the conventional wisdom. Do you believe that advice to be incorrect?

Offline Mayday1

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Re: Another nail in the rental coffin! new regulation
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2017, 06:48:09 PM »
i believe that if only the owner and any immediate family ( sons / daughters ) use a property then no registration is required

However if other relatives...brothers,sisters,grand parents,cousins,etc and family friends use it then you do need to register....even if no money is received....this is the advice from ktln and our management.........but it is up to every individual to do what they believe is correct

Offline monthehoops

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Re: Another nail in the rental coffin! new regulation
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2017, 07:11:35 PM »
Mayday1, the advice on KTLN is as follows:
Quote

What about guests who are family or friends - i.e. non-paying invited guests?

If your property is being marketed for short term holiday rentals, no matter how many or how few bookings you get, this means that your property should be on the GIYKIMBIL system and details of all guests (paying holidaymakers and non-paying family or friends) must be submitted.  The Jandarma are not interested in whether someone is a paying guest or not, they simply need to know who is there for all properties registered on the GIYKIMBIL system.  

If on the other hand you do not market your property for short term holiday lets - if the property is for your own personal use, (you and your family and any friends you wish to invite) then you do not need to register on the GIYKIMBIL system, therefore no guest details need to be submitted.


Offline monthehoops

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Re: Another nail in the rental coffin! new regulation
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2017, 07:15:19 PM »
I am a partner in a large international law firm. I ran this past a tax specialist in a prestigious Istanbul law firm on an informal basis and he concurred that the advice given by KTLN was a sensible interpretation of the regulations. The advice was personal and informal, but I have no reason to think that it is incorrect.

Offline Mayday1

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Re: Another nail in the rental coffin! new regulation
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2017, 11:15:03 PM »
Monthehoops........
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bear in mind there could be some grey areas.  For example let’s say you own villa and you don’t in any way market it for holiday rentals and you receive no income from it.  So you don’t need to register on the system.  But perhaps you are a kind and generous soul with many friends and you allow lots of them to use your villa, week in week out, completely free of charge.  You can see how this would look like you were renting, and it is entirely possible that such appearances could result in questions being asked.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the paragraph under the one you quoted from ktln....Admittedly,in the ktln paragraph you quoted it does say that family and friends can be allowed without the need to register.......but the above paragraph means to me that you have to be very sensible over who visits and how many times,if you don't register

If i was to have many visitors throughout the season,then I would register ( for peace of mind ) but if its just me and one or two others then I wouldn't.

At the end of the day,its sensible to do what we feel is right for ourselves,based purely on our own circumstances.

Offline Cosetta

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Re: Another nail in the rental coffin! new regulation
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2017, 05:28:34 PM »
Monthehoops ... what I believe, having lived here since 2003, is that by next year the whole issue will fade away!  Meanwhile, we used to rent, we have removed our villa from all rental sites.  As in all Turkish regulations that I have seen over the years, whether concerning rentals or residence permits, they start with a bomb that becomes a fizzle.

It is also noted that the "laws" are being differentially applied according to the area and the capacity of the local Jandarm to apply them.  I do not think that Kalkaners or even Islamlar owners are in grave danger UNLESS for whatever reason, let's say a robbery, they come directly to the attention of the Jandarm.  Then many questions will be asked.

Many years ago we had a burglary.  When we submitted our claim it had to be stamped by a Kas judge before the insurance company would pay anything.  I was asked to appear before the judge to explain the circumstances (we were not even in Turkey when it happened).  He literally accused me of lying to collect insurance money and asked me to provide our home insurance policy to see the value of our property.  I was shocked into silence! Many people have had this experience -- guilty until proven innocent!

Also, many years ago the gov sent around fiscal inspectors.  Our villa was rented at the time.  The guests were questioned and asked where was the owner.  We were in Kalkan and were asked to come the following morning to see the tax inspector.  I had to show that we had paid all rental taxes in previous years.  That was long before the current regulations.

And finally, the legal system here does not work like in the UK.  As I said, guilty until proven innocent!  Wanting no problems, we stopping renting and would not give out our villa to friends in our absence, certainly not before we see how this shakes out.

My reporting on what the Turkish newspapers have written is not intended to imply anything on my part.  I have reported what is in print for anyone to read (assuming they read Turkish or have a friend who is a good translator).

All said, IMHO, I think that if the Kalkan Jandarm have occasion to visit an occupied villa in the absence of the owner, they are within their right to question the occupants, apply the law and consider it a rental.  No way to prove that it isn't.  And the article on KTLN says as much. All ok if the owner is around.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 05:31:11 PM by Cosetta »

Offline monthehoops

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Re: Another nail in the rental coffin! new regulation
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2017, 07:21:54 PM »
Cosetta, I specialize in Energy law and have conducted business in over 40 countries at the last count, . My specialty is Africa and Middle East

Offline monthehoops

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Re: Another nail in the rental coffin! new regulation
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2017, 07:34:37 PM »
Cosetta,
I specialize in international oil and gas law and have conducted business in over 40 countries at the last count, including Turkey. My specialty is Africa and the Middle East and I have been threatened by politicians, civil servants, police, judges and gangsters in my time.
I don't come at this as a wide eyed innocent.


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